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Q: Karl Marx and the Communist Dream ( No Answer,   6 Comments )
Question  
Subject: Karl Marx and the Communist Dream
Category: Miscellaneous
Asked by: tracy_0224-ga
List Price: $5.00
Posted: 15 Apr 2004 03:16 PDT
Expires: 15 May 2004 03:16 PDT
Question ID: 330560
Why did Marx believe the proletarian revolution would be the last revolution ever?
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There is no answer at this time.

Comments  
Subject: Re: Karl Marx and the Communist Dream
From: probonopublico-ga on 15 Apr 2004 03:45 PDT
 
Well, he was right!

The ruling classes would never dream of revolting ... they love the status quo.
Subject: Re: Karl Marx and the Communist Dream
From: pugwashjw-ga on 15 Apr 2004 07:59 PDT
 
Here`s what the Bible thinks of man`s political efforts. Its been 2000
odd years since Jesus` time, and just about every political system
that people can think up has been tried, and ultimately failed.
Communism being the latest failure. Capitalism, the pursuit of wealth
[ greed ] is still here but bound to also fail. The book of Revelation
tells us about a coming time when all man`s efforts will be brought to
nothing. Revelation names it as " Armageddon". Revelation 11;18.."The
nations became wrathful, and your own [ God`s } wrath came, and the
appointed time...to bring to ruin those ruining the earth". Revelation
16;14,16..."They go forth to the kings of the entire inhabited earth,
to gather them together to the war of the great day of God the
Almighty". Jeremiah 25;33..." Those slain by God will certainly come
to be in that day from one end of the earth clear to the other end of
the earth". Does the Bible carry on with similar warnings?. Yes, it
does, at Habbakkuk 2;3..For the vision is yet for the appointed time,
and it keeps panting on to  the end , and it will not tell a lie. Even
if it should delay, keep in expectation of it, for it will not be
late". So it seems as though no matter what political system we try
its eventually all for nothing. But there is a ray of hope. And that`s
in Zephaniah 2;3...Seek [ Jehovah]God, [ name and title] all you meek
ones of the earth, who have practised His own judicial decision. Seek
righteousness, seek meekness. PROBABLY you may be concealed in the day
of Jehovah`s ANGER.
Subject: Re: Karl Marx and the Communist Dream
From: neilzero-ga on 15 Apr 2004 17:21 PDT
 
My guess is wishfull thinking. Karl Marks and I like to analyze. When
we find something that might work, we tend to skim over the clues that
it won't.
 Barriers to good government are 1 some of the brightest people like
to control other people. Few of us love our neighbor as ourself. 3 our
good intentions get side tracked by bribes, oportunitiies, weakness of
the flesh, discouragement.   Neil
Subject: Re: Karl Marx and the Communist Dream
From: scottb83-ga on 15 Apr 2004 22:07 PDT
 
You can't use the Bible to answer a question to do with Karl Marx,
Its almost sacrilege! Marx had just as much time for religion as it
had for Marxism!!

The great man said himself :

"man makes religion, religion does not make man. But man is no
abstract being squatting outside the world...This state, this society,
produces religions inverted attitude to the world, because they are an
inverted world themselves. Thus the struggle against religion is
indirectly the struggle against that world whose spiritual aroma is
religion...Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the feeling
of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless circumstances. It is
the opium of the people..."

He believed religion was just a tool of the ruling classes to prevent
the revolution by sedating all the suffering caused by hunger,
inequality, poverty and repression.

In answer to the question though, 

He believed that the proletarian revolution would be the last because
once everyone had achieved equality, what more was there to want for?

In an ideal world communism would bring an end to all the unbearables
in the world, such as the afore mentioned hunger, inequality, poverty
and repression.

Freeing the people to be happy.
Subject: Re: Karl Marx and the Communist Dream
From: pugwashjw-ga on 16 Apr 2004 13:22 PDT
 
for Scottb83.. You have confused organised religion with a love of
god. he two are not the same. Organised religion has been responsible
for millions of people dying over the centuries, one of the worst
being the Crusades. Even Hitler was not anti religious, just anti
Jewish. He left the Catholics alone and it is possible he had an "
arrangement" with the Pope of that time. Karl Marx was a politician
who " looked at " religion, but only as much as it would benefit his
plans. Last time I looked, he was dead and his system along with him.
I can say anything I like about Marx and he can`t do a thing about it.
Ecclesiastes 9;5, 6 ...The living are conscious that they will die,
but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all...6.their
love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they
have no portion anymore to time indefinite, in anything that has to be
done under the sun. Marx has "done his dash", but God with his
undiminished power, and justice and love, and fairness, is still
around. Its up to individuals to choose which way to take.
Subject: Re: Karl Marx and the Communist Dream
From: scottb83-ga on 17 Apr 2004 20:21 PDT
 
RE: Pugwashjw-ga,

I haven't confused anything with anything.

The question was

"Why did Marx believe the proletarian revolution would be the last
revolution ever?"

Maybe you're a little confused, 

Religion or a love of God (whevever) Marx believed was one of the
things that was holding back the Proletarian revolution,

He believed part of the reasons that people didnt take life in their
hands and uprise against the ruling classes was the fodder that the
religions OR 'a love of god' was hoding over them.

Whichever 'book of the supreme beings' you pick up, they all promise a
wonderful, magical afterlife, He belived it was all an illusion.
with no real God or supernatural reality standing in the background.
Religion was a force that stopped human societies from changing.

He also believed that religion was a social institution, and reflected
and sustained the particular society in which it flourished.

Just a tool used by the capitalists to keep the working-class under control.

Religion provided the working-class with comfort in their miserable
oppressed circumstances, and by focussing attention on the joys to
come after death, it distracted the workers from trying to make this
life better.


Furthermore, it takes the noblest human ideals and gave them to a
non-existent God, thus cheating human beings of realising their own
greatness and potential.

Religion disguises the TRUE Wrongs.

Marx argued that the illusory happiness provided by religion should be
eliminated by putting right the economic conditions that caused people
to need this illusion to make their lives bearable.

What Marx ment by refering to religion as 'the opium of the people' is
that it was just a pain-killer, and what was really needed was to CURE
the sickness, not sedate the patient.

The Cure being the revolution, Equality for all.


Revolution literally means a complete turn-around.  A socialist future
may have more fundamental restructurings, but the abolition of all
class rule means it will be the last time that people who are ruled will
have to organize for the purpose of removing a ruling class.

The socialist revolution is also the first basic social change in history
that has occurred since all scarcity became artificial, that is, since
machinery acquired the ability to provide all people in the world with
prosperity, waiting only for us to adopt a system of rational planning.

Engels wrote in his pamphlet  'Socialism: Utopian and Scientific':

     "The socialized appropriation of the means of production does
     away, not only with the present artificial restrictions upon
     production, but also with the positive waste and devastation of
     productive forces and products that are at the present time the
     inevitable concomitants of production, and that reach their
     height in the crises.  Further, it sets free for the community at
     large a mass of means of production and of products, by doing
     away with the senseless extravagance of the ruling classes of
     today, and their political representatives.  The possibility of
     securing for every member of society, by mens of socialized
     production, an existence not only fully sufficient materially,
     and becoming day-by-day more full, but an existence guaranteeing
     to all the free development and exercise of their physical and
     mental faculties -- this possibility is now, for the first time,
     here, but it is here."

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