The other day, I was in line to get a sandwich, and a young lady was
waiting behind me, who was painted up like a street walker and had a
bare shouldered skin tight T-shirt on,  and I asked her if she was in
line for a sandwich, and she said, that she was applying for a job. I
said: "EXCUSE ME?!?!?!?" I said, "You look like you are looking for a
job as a prostitute! I KNOW how long it takes to put make-up on and
you look like you spent a half-hour on your face."

She told me that she was 16, dropped out of high school and her mother
was making her get a job. I told her to go home and put on a shirt
with a collar or a nice T-shirt and to wash her face except for a
little light lip-stick and some light rouge. She had no response. I
was afraid that this girl was going to get raped, because of her
"look!"

And, I had the NERVE to look her right into her sleazy made up eyes
and said, "What kind of birth control are you on?" She laughed and
said it wasn't needed. I told her that if she were my daughter, she
wouldn't be allowed out of the house looking like that. I WOULD DRAG
THAT GIRL TO MY GYNOCOLOGIST BY THE NECK.

OMG, why do young woman dress like this and is this the current style?

Thanks,
Yesmam

---

Request for Question Clarification by pinkfreud-ga on 20 Apr 2004 15:01 PDT

For reasons not known to me, when I try to post a comment, I get an
error message. Hope you don't mind my posting this here. You've hit
one of my hot-button issues, and I'd like to join you in sounding the
alarm.

I think some of the parents are just giving up. Their young daughters
nag them with the "But, Mom, EVERYONE is doing it" line, and they
don't want to be perceived as overly strict. But, land o' Goshen, when
a child wants to go to the mall with her friends, and all of them look
like junior Madonnas (not the one from church), it's time for a
wake-up call.

When I was a kid in the sixties, I was a bit of a beatnik bohemian
type. Later, in college, I dabbled with the hippie-chick look. Parents
didn't much like those styles, as I recall. But today's baby hooker
outfits go beyond taste and fashion into the realm of criminal
provocation. I bet the pedophiles are delighted to see the streets and
schools and stores filled with jailbait girls who seem to be "asking
for it."

---

Request for Question Clarification by pinkfreud-ga on 20 Apr 2004 17:00 PDT

In the ideal world, a girl or woman would be able to dress any way she
pleases without being harassed. But in the real world, dressing in a
deliberately erotic fashion sends a certain kind of signal, like it or
not. The young girls may think the signal is "look at me, I'm so
cute," but males tend to see it as "come and get me, boys."

"Intertwined with gender differences about casual sex are gender
differences in sending and reading sexual signals... Young men often
interpret verbal, behavioral, clothing and situational cues as
willingness to have sexual intercourse....

One in three school counselors surveyed about non-consensual sexual
activity among high school students listed 'student dressing
provocatively' as a cause."

http://www.nyscasa.org/stats_facts/facts/youngadults_facts.cfm

---

Clarification of Question by yesmam-ga on 20 Apr 2004 19:51 PDT

I REALLY DON'T KNOW WHAT TO ADD?

This socity has a suuuuper big problem with teeanagers.

Yesmam

I see a lot of young girls wearing the fashionable mini-slut
semi-clothing, and it really troubles me. Some of these kids are in
elementary school, for cryin' out loud. I wonder if they really
understand the kind of message they are sending.

Did you know that they are now making thong undies for little girls?

Auggh.

Pink-I have no kids and I guess that there is no answer to this
question. I hadn't realized that things had gotten THIS  bad. Have
parents simply given up or are they giving in to their kids wishes
because that is easier than fighting with them?
Geez, I had MY CRAZY STYLES as a teenager, such as used vintage
dresses from the 1930s with a purple usher's jacket and construction
boots hand painted by moi, but these girls look like they may be
raped.Kooky versus cheap and inviting. What do young men think of
this? These girls are teezing them and here we go again-"date rape?"I
hope that some parents contribute to this issue. But, they are
probably too exhausted from working full time at one or two jobs and
dare I say, as a good feminist, that one parent HAS TO BE HOME!!!

Do you have kids or know why parents are allowing this kind of dress?

No, the thong undies have not been noticed by me.

Thanks for responding,
Yesmam (And, we are not being funny about this one.)

Ohhh sighh.  I don?t really want to get caught up on this, since I
just really don?t have the time right now, but also because I haven?t
really thought out my own position well enough to be able to clearly
expound on it yet in any coherent essay.  But it?s also a HUGE hot
button of mine, and I simply have to say I?m so grateful to see that
there ARE others after all who share my horror at this appalling
practice.   After saying that, I did go ahead anyway and rant and rave
in a long rambling diatribe against the practice you describe that
this worried grandmother utterly deplores.  But that was cathartic
enough that I can resist posting it.  I do thank you for posting the
question, though, and hope it will at least make some people stop and
think about what is a dreadful and growing problem.

And yes - they are making thongs for little girls.  My son had to send
his wife back to the store with the one she bought my granddaughter.
Wish him luck.

Ohhh sighh.  I don?t really want to get caught up on this, since I
just really don?t have the time right now, but also because I haven?t
really thought out my own position well enough to be able to clearly
expound on it yet in any coherent essay.  But it?s also a HUGE hot
button of mine, and I simply have to say I?m so grateful to see that
there ARE others after all who share my horror at this appalling
practice.   After saying that, I did go ahead anyway and rant and rave
in a long rambling diatribe against the practice you describe that
this worried grandmother utterly deplores.  But that was cathartic
enough that I can resist posting it.  I do thank you for posting the
question, though, and hope it will at least make some people stop and
think about what is a dreadful and growing problem.

I believe that these girls should be referred to as prosti-tots

What do you guys think about my VERY FORWARD, and IN-YOUR-FACE, asking
her, "What kind of birth control are you on?"

She could have pulled out a knife or screamed at me, but I couldn't
help myself. It's so obvious that this girl is having sex and is not
using protection. AGAIN, where are her parents?

This girl has me worried. And, I don't think that I am alone, BUT,
again, where are the parents and aren't they worried? I sure as Hell
would be with a daughter who dressed and painted her face like that.
AND, I am very liberal about sex and HONESTY!!! HELLO-TEENAGE
PREGNANCY IS A PROBLEM!!! Hello Mom; take your doctor to your doctor's
for some reliable BC PLEASE.

I am not on a mission, because I have my own very busy life, but WHAT
IS THIS WORLD COMING TO?

Yesmam

yesmam....

As a mother of 2 adult children...1 (34 yr old girl) & 1 (28 yr old son)...
Gawd I could have stories to tell....

But.... ya know what happened??????????? My daughter started going
that route & after a yr or so.....I saw her bare face again...:)

I'm not sure, even after taking all kinds of social worker courses in
college....who knows what makes kids tick, but I do KNOW as I was one
of of the earliest HIPPIES, I was just as bad.....

LOL..but just look at me now......a tame, timid, mild-mannered ex-rebel....

Hang in there  and just BELIEVE that these kids will straighten out...
H_ll if I did... anyone  could...

Just my 2 cents worth...

Steph53-ga

Honestly (and I think you can handle this or you wouldn't have asked)
you were indulging in far riskier behavior than she was. You're right,
she COULD have pulled out a knife.

As for your certainty that this young lady was having unprotected sex,
that's nonsense and I think you know that. I don't condone her
suggestive and perhaps tasteless style. But her physical appearance no
more attests to her unsafe promiscuity than my cowboy hat indicates
that I own a saddle (I do not, by the way, own a saddle OR a horse for
that matter). Personally, (since you asked) speaking as a friend, as
friends must honestly do, I think your approach was tactless and way
out of line. You missed a great opportunity in your brief encounter to
coach this young lady in a way that would have a positive impact on
her future decisions. Instead you further wounded her confidence and
self-esteem (which may have already been lacking) and she walked away
embarrassed; convinced that some people simply can't mind their own
business. Think about it: She might have worn the best clothes she had
and, at the tender age of 16,  she might have adorned herself after
her mother, who may be equally fashion challenged and the only example
she knows (albeit a bad one perhaps, but that isn't HER fault is it?).

Not everyone walking down the mean streets is a bad streetwalker, just
like not every shopper is a good youth counselor.

The way she looked merely SUGGESTED "to you" that she was an unsafely
promiscous teen. But the way you acted PROVED BEYOND A DOUBT that you
were prone to poor judgement. Even of you were correct in your
assumption (and we'll never know but let's just say you were for the
sake of saying it) who was more wrong here? The teen who was applying
for a job, doing exactly as she was instructed out of respect for her
mother, trying to find and make an honest living in a grown-up world
she obviously knows little about? Or the adult who might have narrowly
escaped a knife in the throat over an unsolicited and unflateering
comment?

I don't know...Maybe I'm just acting like another overly sensitive
member of law enforcement having worked 4 unnecessary deaths already
in last ten days myself (fact). Maybe I exaggerated, who knows? It
might not have been nearly as bad as I made it out to be. Heck, you
might even have survived it with a few hundred stitches on your neck
and a little help from a skillful physical therapist to help you get
over your paralysis and a caring psychologist to help you work through
your post-traumatic stress so you could feel safe shopping once again.
So like I said, I may have blown it all out of proportion
unnecessarily - don't mind me.

Sorry to be blunt, and I promise, I really didn't aim to hurt. I'm
just being honest ma'am. You might say it was "just my five bucks
worth".

Dad (of four, ages 5-19)

Is this a joke? Are you all seriously this concerned about the style
in which girls choose to dress? Do you not think there are more
important issues that should be addressed, such as why these girls
choose to dress in such a way! Has it occurred to any of you, that
perhaps it is your "cotton wool" style behaviour that is causing them
to dress in such an adult way.  If you guys (and gals) were to treat
them as Adults (by letting them dress their chosen way) perhaps they
would come to their senses in no time - it?s this anti-trendy attitude
that causes the friction that eventually results in faction.

Pink, are you really suggesting that a girl dressing in a "sluty" way,
is any worse than your common sexual innuendoes on this service, after
all Pink, these comments can ultimately be viewed by anyone at any
time.  So before you cast wild comments and accusations upon the youth
of today, perhaps you should examine exactly what standards you are
setting when you upload your comments.  Do you think language such as
"slut" is appropriate for an open source environment?

Can I also ask, do u all believe that women should stay at home all
day whilst the men are at work, because based on your comments, one
can only surmise such an opinion.

Tuneman?©®

I hate to sound like some of these prudes who blame the media for
everything. However, here, I could see a slope in the past few years,
with early-teen idols such as Christina Aguilera, Britney Spears, etc.
- expressing much more promiscuous behaviour on their clips.

Yesmam,

Before I open my mouth, I would like to point out that you are a
highly respected customer of this service and many fellow researchers
whose judgement I value speak very highly of you.

Like my colleague, tutuzdad-ga, I am presuming that you are looking
for honest answers to your question, whether you happen to agree with
them or not. If not, I hope you are at least not offended by what I
have to say.

We do not, and cannot, know what goes on in the mind of the young girl
you talked to. She may be the most or the least morally bankrupt
person on the face of the planet is not the issue. How you treated her
is.

I believe that you acted with prejudice, discourtesy and the utmost
disrespect towards someone who you do not know. I hope that she can
find it in her heart to forgive you for that. Had you been her
potential employer, she could have taken you to court for blatant
discrimination and rightly won.

None of us have any right to judge anyone else on their appearance.
Ever. It is unfair enough to judge people on their actions without
taking into account all of them, but to judge on appearance alone is
incredibly damaging, whether it be on the grounds of race, sex,
colour, creed or the amount of makeup used.

The only part of your question that I do not find offensive is your
final comment, which is apt and insightful. Is this the current style?

While I am the last person on the planet who could be seen as an
expert on trends, this probably is the current style. This girl, like
most people, is probably a sheep willing to follow any fashion that
comes along because she is afraid to be herself.

That's the crime here: that someone exists in our modern world who is
afraid to be herself, followed quickly by the realisation that that
someone is Everyman.

Fashion is meaningless, whether it be image, taste or knowledge based.
It is created and marketed by large corporations who have monopolised
their markets by bribing politicians with juicy campaign donations.
They force feed their ideas to consumers by deluging the market with
homogenised garbage and closing it to anyone with an independent
thought. And Everyman buys into it.

Who amongst you watches American Idol, has bought a Britney Spears CD
or a Tommy Hilfiger shirt, eats at McDonald's, drinks at Starbucks,
reads gossip columns, watches MTV or takes package holidays? You are
culturally bankrupt and your voice is forever meaningless. You are
nothing but a corporate whore.

The problem is that this describes most parents and most grandparents
as much as most children. They're simply stuck in a different trend
for a different demographic.

As an example, this girl probably plastered makeup all over her face
because she felt it appropriate for a job interview. You suggest that
she should instead wear only light lipstick and rouge. Personally, I
would suggest that she just be herself and wear nothing but her own
face. To me makeup is nothing more than a lack of self confidence and
I wouldn't want that in an employee of mine. I'd hire someone with a
six inch knife scar down their cheek over someone who wears makeup
because at least they are honest.

In her comment above, Pink has asked for a wakeup call. I agree
absolutely. What I would humbly suggest is that the wakeup call is not
for those eight year old girls who wear thongs; rather it is for the
mothers who buy those thongs for them because some celebrity told them
to on a commercial. It is not for the girls who want to be Britney; it
is for the politicians who have sold out their country for money to
allow evil monopolists such as ClearChannel or the RIAA to dictate
their policies.

The dangerous people are the normal people. Always. They're afraid to
be themselves, and if they're that scared then they're too scared to
function in a civilised society.

Hoping that this is seen as the sheer honesty that it is, nothing more
and nothing less,

poe-ga
Google Answers Researcher

Lol

Everybody TALKS ... NO ONE does ANYTHING ...

To Dad-I appreciate your admonishment. I am already in a wheelchair
for seven years now due to MS. It was an off day, a very off day.

This gal told me from what town she lived in. Not a house below a
$750,000. Maybe more.


Steph53-I'm glad the your kids have grown out of it.


Well, what and whom can I offend next time? And, if any members of The
Google Answer Team don't want to, they can avoid my questions. That's
easy. But, I know that you always DO PEEK!

Yesmam

<What do you guys think about my VERY FORWARD, and IN-YOUR-FACE, asking
her, "What kind of birth control are you on?">

Had I been the young lady in question, I would have slapped your face
with all my might.  How rude.

Teenage pregnancy isn't a problem because teenage girls are wearing
bare-shoulder t-shirts.  Teenage pregnancy is a problem because
teenagers aren't being taught honestly about sex and contraception.

Dear Yesmam

I was very sorry to learn of your disability.

A very dear friend of mine is similarly affected.

Please keep your Questions & Comments flowing and do be as
controversial as you like, as the interchange of views may be
therapeutic. I do hope so.

Warmest regards

Bryan

Kids always rebel (to some extent) against their parents. 

In my case, I was told in no uncertain terms that I could not have an
air pistol/rifle that I coveted. I was probably 10 or so at the time.

So, I bought myself an air pistol and hid it from my parents.

I really believe that I got more fun about having a secret weapon than
if my folks had OK'd the deal.

So what's new? Ragtime, Jazz, Punks ... The amazing thing is that so
many crazy youngsters grow into 'sensible' adults who, in time, are
going to be shocked by their own kids.

I am just pleased that my two daughters have each steered a great
course and that we all get on so well together.

Bryan

Women don't get raped because of their clothes. I am appalled that
someone as intelligent as yourself would propogate such a damaging
misconception. Rape is an act of violence, not an act of sex. Men are
not animals who lose all ability to control themselves at the sight of
a bare shoulder. If that girl gets raped, it's because she encountered
a violent criminal, not because her skirt was too short. She may be
asking for something, but a broken arm, a bruised face, shredded
clothing, humiliation and a violated body probably isn't what she has
in mind. Let alone a rape trial where she gets to face a defense
attorney who is explaining to a jury that it was all her fault because
she had on too much lipstick and isn't a virgin. Frankly, I don't care
if you just watched while I did the entire Eighth Army in the middle
of the street in alphabetical order by last name. If I said No to you,
you better dang well live with it!

- Hammer

Responding to the last comment on rape, it is a fact that over 80% of
rapists are known acquaintances.  Clothing doesn't neccessarily have a
great impact on one's chances of getting raped as much as one's
attitude.  Someone who has a passive and submissive demeanor is in
more danger.  So no, a "bare shouldered skin tight T-shirt" will not
attract some violent sexual predator to attack this young girl.  As a
young adult, it is likely I have worn clothing yesmam would consider
provacative or "sleazy" but in comparison to many girls my age, I
dress in a fairly conservative manner.  yesmam, I ask that in the
future you do not judge people by their appearance.  Yes, the young
girl in question should have dressed more appropriately for a job
application but her means of dress should not indicate her morals and
state of sexual activity.  I am very surprised that this girl reacted
so calmly.  If you think that was bad, just try visiting your average
public highschool, that should give you a new perspective.

And yes, I do find provacative clothing for young children disturbing
on many levels.  The film "Thirteen" expresses that very well...

I believe It's called evolution.  every year the teen's wearing these
cloths get younger and younger. the fashion has always been there. but
are society as a whole has been rapidly changing, from television to
radio and everything in between, are world and the people in it are
getting more and more uncontrolable
eventually the teen's wearing those cloth's won't even be teen's
anymore. they will be 10 and 11 year old's. Don't blame the parent's
because half of them don't even see what thier kid's are wearing these
day's because their already at work or not even awake when their kid's
go to school

Bare shoulders isn't a big deal.
Afterall do you find shoulders offensive?
Teenagers are almost adults. Now do you find something wrong with
adults wearing tube-tops? Just because your generation finds this
unacceptable, todays generation  considers it casual attire. Fashions
have changed over the years, dont get mad because your generation is
alot different from another generation.