Apparently, in illinois, if a cop pulls you over and you are there for
more than 20 minutes, and you do not leave in hand cuffs, it is an
invalid traffic stop. (I.E. A speeding ticket issued then would not
hold up in court).  Where is this this stated in Illinois law?

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Clarification of Question by bmicomp-ga on 22 Apr 2004 00:49 PDT

By leave in handcuffs, I mean, if you are not arrested.

Hi there

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Now having covered that aspect of things, there seems top be a some
fluidity in Illinois law about the duration of traffic stops. (often
covered by Terry stop law))

According to the website quoted in the next paragraph below - "The
standard for determining the reasonableness of a Terry investigatory
stop has been codified in our Code of Criminal Procedure of 1963 (725
ILCS 5/107-14 (West 1998)). Thomas, 198 Ill. 2d at 109, Brownlee, 186
Ill. 2d at 518. The same standard is applied in determining the
propriety of an investigatory stop under article I, section 6, of the
1970 Illinois Constitution (Ill. Const. 1970, art. I, §6). Thomas, 198
Ill. 2d at 109, citing People v. Tisler, 103 Ill. 2d 226, 241-45
(1984) (the protection against unreasonable searches and seizures
under the Illinois Constitution is measured by the same standards as
are used in defining the protections contained in the fourth amendment
to the United States Constitution)."

"Thus, current fourth amendment jurisprudence in Illinois is that the
fourth amendment is not violated if the police conduct a full
custodial arrest of a defendant for a minor traffic offense punishable
only by a fine, but the fourth amendment is violated if the police
take 15 minutes to write the traffic ticket. Unfortunately, the
majority opinion leaves the police with no other choice but to conduct
full custodial arrests of people for minor traffic violations if it
appears that it will take 15 minutes to process the traffic stop.
Since 15 minutes is now presumptively unreasonable if the police
cannot explain why the stop took 15 minutes, a police officer who
hears the majority's fourth amendment timer ticking will have to take
the person into custody if he wants to avoid having the seizure
declared unlawful. Therefore, not only is the new 15-minute per se
rule of dubious legality in light of Sharpe, it will create more
problems than it will solve...The majority essentially draws a
constitutional line in the sand at 15 minutes. If the traffic stop
takes 15 minutes or more, the detention is illegal unless the State
can justify the length of the detention. Interestingly, in one of the
cases relied upon by the majority, United States v. Sharpe, 470 U.S.
675, 84 L. Ed. 2d 605, 105 S. Ct. 1568 (1985), the United States
Supreme Court refused to set the limit of a permissible traffic stop
at 20 minutes:" - quote from Docket No. 90759-Agenda 5-January 2002 -
Justice Thomas Dissenting -  While the name of the party involved is
part of the Case name and easily found, I am avoiding using it here
for Privacy reasons.
http://www.state.il.us/court/Opinions/SupremeCourt/2002/December/Opinions/Html/90759.htm

However things are not always simple.  You mention taking a person
away in handcuffs, that is, a formal arrest.  Such procedure is not
always necessary to define "arrest."  If the officer simply tells you
you cannot leave, that may very well be construed as "arrest."

This from the Expertlaw Website - "Reality is a bit more complicated.
An arrest occurs when a person no longer reasonably expects that he is
free to leave. A "Terry Stop" is not an arrest, even though the person
can't leave during the investigatory questioning, as the detention is
of short duration and is limited in its scope. (A "Terry Stop" may
involve little more than a short series of questions, such as, "What
is your name? Where do you live? Why are you here?") However, if a
person is not allowed to leave the scene for an extended period of
time, the person may be considered to be "under arrest," even though
those words are never used. If a person is handcuffed, is locked in
the back of a police car, or is [otherwise restrained] from leaving,
the person will ordinarily be considered to be "under arrest." - quote
from expertlaw.com - brackets around "otherwise restrained" mine. -
http://www.expertlaw.com/library/pubarticles/Criminal/Stops.html

If you have further interest in the "United States v. Sharpe" case 470
U.S. 675, 685, 84 L. Ed. 2d 605, 615, 105 S. Ct. 1568, 1575 (1985) -
you will find the decision and arguments here.
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?navby=volpage&court=us&vol=470&page=687
- From Findlaw.com

Search Google
Terms -  terry stops, traffic stop law, Illinois traffic stop law

If I may clarify anything, please ask.

Cheers
digsalot

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Request for Answer Clarification by bmicomp-ga on 22 Apr 2004 20:58 PDT

This is very helpful, however, i have somewhat of a followup question.
 However, if a cop pulled me over for speeding, and if the stop was
invalid due to the time limitation, would the officer be able to write
me a ticket for the speeding?

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Clarification of Answer by digsalot-ga on 23 Apr 2004 02:17 PDT

Your clarification request is quite interesting and I can only answer
it according to the exact wording you use.

"...if a cop pulled me over for speeding, and if the stop was invalid
due to the time limitation, would the officer be able to write me a
ticket for the speeding?"

The stop may be invalid because of the time limit.  However, the
question asks if the officer would "be able to write a ticket."  Of
course he/she would be 'able' to write a ticket.  Whether or not it
held up would depend on the arguments and evidence presented by you
and your lawyer.

Even with the presumed time limit established by a particular court
case, we need to remember the following:

"Therefore, not only is the new 15-minute per se rule of dubious
legality in light of Sharpe, it will create more problems than it will
solve..."

The words "dubius legality" mean that much may still have to be
decided on a case by case basis.

So once again, yes, the officer will be "able" to write you a ticket
and take his/her own chance in the courts just as you will take your
own chance in the courts if you decide follow up and challenge it.

Digs

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Clarification of Answer by digsalot-ga on 30 Apr 2004 10:43 PDT

Thank you for the kind words and the extra.  We look forward to being
of service again if you need us.

Digs

Your answer was so much more thorough than I had expected.  I really
appreciate though, this has been a big help!