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Subject:
weight gases
Category: Science > Physics Asked by: tonymast-ga List Price: $2.00 |
Posted:
05 May 2004 09:43 PDT
Expires: 04 Jun 2004 09:43 PDT Question ID: 341513 |
I'm having a debate with a friend. He says you cannot weight gases. I say you can. Hot air rises because it's liter. Helium balloons rise for the same Reason. If a gas is denser molecularly then another, you must be able to weight it. if I put a heavy gas in a balloon and drop it on a sensitive scale it should register some weight (minus balloon weight). Who is right? |
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Subject:
Re: weight gases
Answered By: thx1138-ga on 05 May 2004 10:38 PDT Rated: |
Hello tonymast and thank you for your question. Good news! You are correct! Gases can be weighed. "Air has weight, and so has every gas and body. You can prove this with a balance. A hermetically lockable vessel without air weighs less than when it contains air or any other gas. Hence you can compare the masses of gases by their weight. The amount of mass, that is, how many grams are contained in a vessel filled with a gas, depends essentially on its pressure and temperature. For a comparison ofweights, you must relate them to a normal temperature and normal pressure. At 0ºC and 760 mm mercury you have:" http://kr.cs.ait.ac.th/~radok/physics/e4.htm "We have means of weighing gases or air; but, without stopping to explain that, let me just tell you what their respective weights are. The weight of a pint of hydrogen is three-quarters of a grain; the weight of the same quantity of oxygen is nearly twelve grains. This is a very great difference. The weight of a cubic foot of hydrogen is one-twelfth of an ounce; and the weight of a cubic foot of oxygen is one ounce and a third. And so on we might come to masses of matter which may be weighed in the balance, and which we can take account of as to hundred-weights and as to tons, as you will see almost immediately." http://www.rod.beavon.clara.net/Faraday_lecture_4.htm A simple experiment: "But how can we actually prove that air has weight? Isn?t it just an invisible mixture of gases that we need to breathe? Let me show you. The air in the atmosphere is kept close to the Earth by the pull of gravity, the force that pulls everything ? including you and I ? down to the ground. Without gravity, we would be weightless and would float above the ground, as we see with astronauts in space. As well as giving humans weight, gravity also does the same for air. We can illustrate this with a simple experiment using two balloons. We want to test whether the balloon is heavier or lighter (or the same weight) after you blow air into it. To do this, tie a piece of string around the middle of a stick of piece of cane so that it balances. Then tie an empty balloon to each end of the cane. What happens? The two balloons should balance evenly at each end. Now remove one balloon and blow air into it. When you have done that, tie it back onto the end of the cane. Is there any change? That?s right, the end with the blown-up balloon on it should dip downwards. This is because the air in the balloon is making it heavier." http://www.rcn27.dial.pipex.com/cloudsrus/pressure.html#Weighing%20air Thank you for your question, and if you neeed any clarification of my answer do not hesitate to ask. Very best regards THX1138 Search strategy included: "gas weights" ://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&as_qdr=all&q=%22gas+weights%22 |
tonymast-ga
rated this answer:
and gave an additional tip of:
$5.00
A simple Yes/No for 2 bucks would have sufficed. But you went above and beyond and showed me how to prove it. excellent answer thank you. (of course i enjoyed the a little more being right!!) ;) |
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Subject:
Re: weight gases
From: thx1138-ga on 05 May 2004 13:22 PDT |
Hello again tonymast, Just a note to say, I'm glad you won the debate! and thank you for the excellent rating and generous tip. Very best regards THX1138 |
Subject:
Re: weight gases
From: neilzero-ga on 05 May 2004 20:12 PDT |
In the last experiment (the cane and ballons) I am skeptical. The inflated balloon would would have warmer air (on a cold day, with low humidity) so it might pull up the balance instead dip downward = a hot air balloon. This effect is partially (or completely) offset by the fact that the elastic of the balloon compresses the air increasing it's density, plus a bit of spit that may have entered the balloon or remain on the neck of the balloon. Also the exhailed air has more carbon dioxide which is about twice as heavy as air; and more water vapor which is about half as heavy as air. The cane experiment does not have sufficient control of random errors. I do agree that air can be weighed. Neil |
Subject:
Re: weight gases
From: bariot-ga on 07 May 2004 12:05 PDT |
Neil. You are correct that there is a source of error but this lab is mearly qualitative anyway. So I don't know if skeptical is an appropriate response. Any water vapor that enters with your breath takes up little space, and if they are droplets, the humidity may even increase the mass of the gas. Any saliva on the neck could dry. By letting the balloon rest for anything more than a couple minutes would ensure that the temperature changes to room temperature. Carbon dioxide is actually a small proportion of an exhaled breath (especially when compared to the mass of the balloon). Yes, the elastic does compress the air, but that just helps to prove the point which is really...does this invisible stuff have mass, whether it be CO2, H20 vapor or whatever. |
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