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Q: UNEXPLAINED WEIGHT LOSS AT MOMENT OF DEATH ( No Answer,   7 Comments )
Question  
Subject: UNEXPLAINED WEIGHT LOSS AT MOMENT OF DEATH
Category: Science > Instruments and Methods
Asked by: mcisencraft-ga
List Price: $3.00
Posted: 08 May 2004 20:39 PDT
Expires: 13 May 2004 19:49 PDT
Question ID: 343392
bobbie7 or....?  YEARS AGO SOME FRENCHMEN PUT SCALES ON ALL 4 CORNERS
OF DYING PATIENTS BEDS AND NOTED AN UNEXPLAINED WEIGHT LOSS AT THE
MOMENT OF DEATH. RECENTLY SOME GUY MEASURED THE UNEXPLAINED LOSS IN
SHEEP. MY QUESTION IS THE AMOUNT OF WEIGHT LOSS IN A HUMAN IS IT
CURRENTLY MORE OR LESS THAN THE WEIGHT OF A DIME? THANKYOU,
MCISENCRAFT

Clarification of Question by mcisencraft-ga on 11 May 2004 19:29 PDT
I JUST NEED THE ANSWER TO 1 QUESTON NOW. AT THE MOMENT OF DEATH IN A
HUMAN (WHEN THEY STOP BREATHING ON THEIR DEATHBED) IS THE UNEXPLAINED
WEIGHT LOSS MORE OR LESS THAN A DIME. I HAVE ALREADY FOUND THE ANSWER
TO THE GUY THAT MEASURED THE LOSS IN SHEEP (POSTED WAY BELOW) I THINK
THIS ALL STARTED WITH A FRENCH EXPERIMENT WITH WEIGHT SCALES ON ALL
FOUR CORNERS OF THE BED OF DYING PEOPLE ABOUT 100 YEARS AGO. THANKYOU
MCISENCRAFT
Answer  
There is no answer at this time.

Comments  
Subject: Re: UNEXPLAINED WEIGHT LOSS AT MOMENT OF DEATH
From: ulu-ga on 08 May 2004 23:01 PDT
 
Short Answer:  No.

One of the problems even trying to measure it, as mentioned in the
following, is determining the "moment of death".  That is much more of
a poetic phrase than a precise scientific term.  I did not find any
reference to an experiment being performed in France, but it does
sound like Dr. MacDougall of Massachusetts experiment.

Is there lightness after death?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/feature/story/0,13026,1150835,00.html
...
"I've been dealing with death for 45 years and I can say with some
confidence there's nothing in it," says Robert Stern, a pathologist at
the University of California, San Francisco.
...
The origin of the 21g figure can be traced to Duncan MacDougall, a
doctor working in Haverhill, Massachusetts in the early 1900s.
MacDougall had a keen fascination with death and spent part of his
career on an almost obsessive hunt for evidence of the soul. He
thought that if humans had a soul, it must exist in the body as some
kind of material. And that material must weigh something.
...
At the end of his foray into science, MacDougall declared that humans
lost up to three-fourths of an ounce upon death, a figure that doesn't
have quite the same ring as 21g, the metric equivalent. The dogs, he
said, lost nothing. What else might it be if not the weight of the
soul departing, he asked.
...

For a more detailed description:

Soul Man 
http://www.snopes.com/religion/soulweight.asp
...
It would take a great deal of credulity to conclude that MacDougall's
experiments demonstrated anything about post-mortem weight loss, much
less the quantifiable existence of the human soul. For one thing, his
results were far from consistent, varying widely across his half-dozen
test cases:
...
So, out of six tests, two had to be discarded, one showed an immediate
drop in weight (and nothing more), two showed an immediate drop in
weight which increased with the passage of time, and one showed an
immediate drop in weight which reversed itself but later recurred. And
even these results cannot be accepted at face value as the potential
for experimental error was extremely high, especially since MacDougall
and his colleagues often had difficulty in determining the precise
moment of death, one of the key factors in their experiments.
(MacDougall later attempted to explain away the timing discrepancies
by concluding that "the soul's weight is removed from the body
virtually at the instant of last breath, though in persons of sluggish
temperament it may remain in the body for a full minute.")

Text of the published experiment:

http://www.ghostweb.com/soul.html
American Medicine April, 1907
Hypothesis Concerning Soul Substance Together with Experimental
Evidence of The Existence of Such Substance
by Duncan MacDougall, M.D. of Haverhill, Mass. 

Related material:

'Soul Trial' decided funding for afterlife search
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/0224didyouknow24.html

Scientific Inquiry into OBE
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/patmccallum/science.htm
(long list of studies going back to 1834)
Subject: SHEEP PORTION OF QUESTION ANSWERED HERE. WILL STILL PAY FOR BELOW
From: mcisencraft-ga on 11 May 2004 17:29 PDT
 
Unexplained Weight Gain Transients at the Moment of Death
Lewis E. Hollander, Jr., P.O. Box 100, Redmond, OR 97756 
Below is Half my answer. I will still pay if Google will answer the
other part of the question about human weight loss being more or less
than a dime. Death of course is defined as the stopping of breathing
not brain wave activity. Thanks M.

Twelve animals (one ram, seven ewes, three lambs and one goat) were
studied. At the moment of death an unexplained weight gain transient
of 18 to 780 grams for 1 to 6 seconds was observed with seven adult
sheep but not with the lambs or goat. The transients occurred in a
quiet time at the moment of death when all breathing and movement had
ceased. These transient gains are anomalous in that there is no
compensating weight loss as required by Newton's Third Law. There was
no permanent weight change at death. Dynamic weight measurements may
present a fruitful area of investigation.
Subject: Re: UNEXPLAINED WEIGHT LOSS AT MOMENT OF DEATH
From: cynthia-ga on 12 May 2004 01:09 PDT
 
mcisencraft,

The current weight of a single Dime is 2.27 grams.

Dimes
http://www.cmf5.com/headtails/dimes1.htm

1796 to 1853 - 2.7 grams
1953 to 1964 - 2.5 grams
1965 to present - 2.27 grams
Subject: Thankyou to ulu and cynthia
From: mcisencraft-ga on 12 May 2004 15:41 PDT
 
Your comments have really helped on this one. However it doesnt look
like I am going to get a good up to date answer on the measured weight
loss in a human. I know its a tough one.

Does it effect either of you if I cancel this question or should I
just let it stay. Thank you both again, McIsencraft
Subject: Re: UNEXPLAINED WEIGHT LOSS AT MOMENT OF DEATH
From: cynthia-ga on 12 May 2004 15:55 PDT
 
mcisencraft,

Your original question:  

..."MY QUESTION IS THE AMOUNT OF WEIGHT LOSS IN A HUMAN IS IT
CURRENTLY MORE OR LESS THAN THE WEIGHT OF A DIME? ..."

...has been answered.  The current weight of a dime is far less than
the [reported] 'weight lost at the moment of death.'

Additional questions that go beyond the scope of your original query,
become a "new question."

You addressed your question to bobbie7, which makes it unlikely that
anyone else will post an official Answer.  There is little else that
bobbie7 could add to the information already given to you for free, so
it is unlikely she will post.

In my opinion, it won't affect anyone if you close the question.

~~Cynthia
Subject: I will pay if one of you wants to post an answer in the next few days.
From: mcisencraft-ga on 12 May 2004 18:53 PDT
 
When I read "Short answer no" to first reply I didn't go much further.
After re-sifting the comments indeed the answer can be gleaned. Just
to try to "do right" I will wait a few days. If she wants to post
anykind of answer I will go ahead and authorize payment. If not I will
close it. Thankyou both again. M.I.
Subject: Re: UNEXPLAINED WEIGHT LOSS AT MOMENT OF DEATH
From: bobbie7-ga on 13 May 2004 07:40 PDT
 
Dear Mcisencraft,

Thank you for asking me to answer your question. It seems that your
question has already been answered in the comment box.

Since ulu-ga is not a Google Researcher I suggest that you request
that cynthia-ga post the official answer to your question and get the
fee.

Sincerely,
Bobbie7

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