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Q: Comparison of Prayer vs Meditation ( Answered 5 out of 5 stars,   1 Comment )
Question  
Subject: Comparison of Prayer vs Meditation
Category: Miscellaneous
Asked by: soozeality-ga
List Price: $5.00
Posted: 24 May 2004 19:34 PDT
Expires: 23 Jun 2004 19:34 PDT
Question ID: 351464
I need this info before 4PM on Tuesday, May 25th for it to be useful.

Topic: Comparison of Prayer vs. Meditation
QUESTION: What are the definitions;different types of; similarities or
differences between Prayer and Meditation?
Answer  
Subject: Re: Comparison of Prayer vs Meditation
Answered By: sublime1-ga on 25 May 2004 01:23 PDT
Rated:5 out of 5 stars
 
soozeality...

I've studied spiritual development for most of my life.
The simplest way to define the distinction is that prayer
is usually about expressing oneself to God, while meditation
is about creating space free of thought and desire in which
one can obtain insights, answers and other blessings.

In simplest terms, prayer is talking to God, meditation is
listening (without expecting that the insights and answers
will be the ones you asked for).

As one mystic put it, however, there are probably as many
ways to meditate as there are practitioners. Meditation 
to arrive at silence of the mind is different than 
meditation that attempts to plumb the depths of one's
soul and examine one's thoughts, desires, and behaviors,
which is called contemplation. Many do not consider this
to be a true form of meditation, since it can involve
thought and the intellect.

Additionally, there are meditations which focus on sound,
or use guided imagery or use scents (incense) to enhance
the process.

There are similar components to the formalized versions
of prayer which have become traditions in various 
religious and spiritual traditions.

Since the ultimate goal of both processes is to open
up a dialog with the divine, leading to communication,
and, ultimately, communion with the divine, at some
point either practice will lead to, and blend with,
the other.

In one way of looking at it, the one praying is the
pray-er, so it is the soul itself, reaching toward 
union with the divine, in whatever format arises 
spontaneously, which is the actual prayer, and the
natural inclinations of the soul in this endeavor
have been recorded, passed down, and formalized into
the formats we call prayer and meditation.

Another distinction which may be useful is that prayer,
as defined by those who use the word, is most often
the action of someone who believes in a personalized
God - a Supreme Being with some sort of personalized
identity, as might be typified by Jesus and the Father,
or Buddha, etc. You can pray *to* a saint, or any
personalized form which represents the divine. Of
course, you can also meditate on the divinity evident
in the life of such a being, but this is, again, more
like contemplation.

Meditation is a term more likely to be used by individuals
who are seeking union with a God that they see as an
impersonal Divine Presence which pervades all of
creation - a definitionless awareness with limitless
creative power which is the source and substance of 
all awareness and form everywhere, and is the root 
and common source to the awareness of all beings. 
In this sense, such believers see such an impersonal
God at the heart of every human, animal, plant and 
physical form which exists anywhere.


Since the ultimate goal of both processes is beyond
communication or even communion, and is unqualified
*union* with the Divine, these distinctions will
ultimately fall away, as the devout practitioner of
either practice will move beyond words and descriptions
into the realm of a wordless knowing of the Divine
Nature as their own nature.

For an example of the thoughts of such a being, I
refer you to the Hsin Hsin Mingh, which translates
as 'The Book of Nothing', said to have been authored
more than 10,000 years ago. I have the file on my
computer:

 Verses on the faith mind of Sengstan (Sosan) 3rd Zen Patriarch,
 translated from the original Chinese by Richard B. Clarke, Zen
 teacher at the Living Dharma Centers, Amherst, Massachussets and
 Coventry, Connecticut.

        ------------------------------------------------------------

        The Great Way is not difficult
        for those who have no preferences. 

        When love and hate are both absent
        everything becomes clear and undisguised.

        Make the smallest distinction, however, 
        and heaven and earth are set infinitely apart. 

        If you wish to see the truth
        then hold no opinion for or against. 

        The struggle of what one likes and dislikes
        is the disease of the mind.

        *

        When the deep meaning of things is not understood
        the mind's essential peace is disturbed to no avail.

        The Way is perfect like vast space
         where nothing is lacking and nothing is in excess.
 
        Indeed, it is due to our choosing to accept or reject 
        that we do not see the true nature of things. 
        
        Live neither in the entanglements of outer things,
        nor in inner feelings of emptiness. 

        Be serene without striving activity in the oneness of things
        and such erroneous views will disappear by themselves.

        When you try to stop activity to achieve passivity 
        your very effort fills you with activity. 

        As long as you remain in one extreme or the other 
        you will never know Oneness. 

       Those who do not live in the single Way 
       fail in both activity and passivity, assertion and denial.

        * *

        To deny the reality of things is to miss their reality;
        to assert the emptiness of things is to miss their reality.

        The more you talk and think about it, 
        the further astray you wander from the truth. 

        Stop talking and thinking
        and there is nothing you will not be able to know.

        * * *

        To return to the root is to find the meaning,
        but to pursue appearances is to miss the source.

        At the moment of inner enlightenment there is 
        a going beyond appearance and emptiness. 

        The changes that appear to occur in the empty world 
        we call real only because of our ignorance. 

        Do not search for the truth; 
        only cease to hold opinions. 
        
        Do not remain in the dualistic state; 
        avoid such pursuits carefully. 

        If there is a trace of this and that, right and wrong, 
        the Mind-essence will be lost in confusion.

        Although all dualities come from the One, 
        do not be attached even to this One. 

        When mind exists undisturbed in the Way,
        nothing in the world can offend, 
        
        And when a thing can no longer offend 
        it ceases to exist in the old way. 
  
        When no discriminating thoughts arise, 
        the old mind ceases to exist.

        * *

        When thought-objects vanish, the thinking-subject vanishes,
        as when the mind vanishes, objects vanish. 

        Things are objects because of the subject; 
        the mind is such because of things. 

        Understand the relativity of these two
        and the basic reality: the unity of emptiness. 

        In this Emptiness, the two are indistinguishable
        and each contains in itself the whole world. 

        If you do not discriminate between coarse and fine
        you will not be tempted to prejudice and opinion.

        *

        To live in the Great Way is neither easy nor difficult, 
        but those with limited views are fearful and irresolute: 
   
        The faster they hurry, the slower they go, 
        and clinging cannot be limited: 

        Even to be attached to the idea 
        of enlightenment is to go astray. 

        Just let things be in their own way
        and there will be neither coming nor going. 

        Obey the nature of things (your own nature), 
        and you will walk freely and undisturbed. 

        When thought is in bondage, the truth is hidden,
        for everything is murky and unclear, 
        
        and the burdensome practice of judging 
        brings annoyance and weariness. 

       What benefit can be derived 
       from distinctions and separations? 

       If you wish to move in the One Way 
       do not dislike even the world of senses and ideas.

       Indeed, to accept them fully
       is identical with true Enlightenment. 

       The wise man strives for no goals 
       but the foolish man fetters himself. 

       There is one Dharma, truth, law, not many; 
       distinctions arise from the clinging needs of the ignorant.

       To seek Mind with the discriminating mind
       is the greatest of all mistakes.

        * *

        Rest and unrest derive from illusion; 
        with enlightenment there is no liking and disliking. 

        All dualities come from ignorant inference. 
        They are like dreams or flowers in the air -
        foolish try to grasp them. 

        Gain and loss, right and wrong: 
        such thoughts must finally be abolished at once. 
 
        If the eye never sleeps, 
        all dreams will naturally cease. 

        If the mind makes no discriminations,  
        the ten thousand things are as they are, of single essence.

        To understand the mystery of this One-essence 
        is to be released from all entanglements. 

        When all things are seen equally 
        the timeless Self-essence is reached. 

        No comparisons or analogies are possible 
        in this causeless, relationless state.

        * * *

        Consider movement stationary and the stationary in motion,
        and both the state of movement and the state of rest disappear.

        When such dualities cease to exist 
        Oneness itself cannot exist. 

        To this ultimate finality,
        no law or description applies.

        For the unified mind in accord with the Way 
        all self-centered striving ceases. 

        Doubts and irresolutions vanish 
        and life in true faith is possible.
        
        With a single stroke we are freed from bondage;
        nothing clings to us and we hold nothing. 

        All is empty, clear, and self-illuminating, 
        with no exertion of the mind's power.
        
        Here, thoughts, feelings, knowledge, and imagination
        are of no value.

        * *

        In this world of Suchness 
        there is neither self nor other-than-self. 

        To come directly into harmony with this reality 
        just simply say, when doubts arise, "Not two." 

        In this "not two" nothing is separate, 
        nothing is excluded. 
        
        No matter when or where, 
        enlightenment means entering this truth. 

        And this truth is beyond extension or diminution in time or
        space.
        In it, a single thought is ten thousand years.

        *

        Emptiness here, Emptiness there, 
        but the infinite universe stands always before our eyes. 

        Infinitely large and infinitely small; no difference, 
        for definitions have vanished and no boundaries are seen. 

        So too with Being and non-Being. 
        Don't waste time in doubts and arguments
        that have nothing to do with this. 

        One thing, all things: move among and intermingle, without
        distinction. 
        To live in this realization is to be without anxiety about
        non-perfection.

        To live in this faith is the road to non-duality, 
        because the non-dual is one with the trusting mind.
        
        Words!
        
        The Way is beyond language, 
        for in it there is
        
        no yesterday

        no tomorrow

        no today.


Please do not rate this answer until you are satisfied that  
the answer cannot be improved upon by way of a dialog  
established through the "Request for Clarification" process. 
 
A user's guide on this topic is on skermit-ga's site, here: 
http://www.christopherwu.net/google_answers/answer_guide.html#how_clarify 
 
sublime1-ga

Request for Answer Clarification by soozeality-ga on 25 May 2004 07:47 PDT
I did so love the answer provided, especially the Book of Nothing
section.  I was hoping for references to articles (via a Google
search) that would address this question (something not authored
10,000 years ago and things that folks might access to read on their
own). Things from experts that I could read up on. That sort of thing.
Any chance of getting something like that (I would log onto the sites
provided and download the info, all I need are sites of articles that
cover a comparison of prayer vs meditation). I don't mean to be
'greedy' about the request. If I need to pay another $5.00 + 50 cents,
please charge my card and let me know. Thanks.
Soozeality

Clarification of Answer by sublime1-ga on 25 May 2004 11:41 PDT
soozeality...

Thanks very much for the rating and tip. By rating the answer
you have finalized all payments for this question, but that's
quite alright.

Pardon my oversight in not providing some links on this topic.

This page on LightNet offers a channeled discussion which contrasts
prayer and meditation, emphasizing that prayer is supplication,
while meditation is surrender:
http://home.iae.nl/users/lightnet/creator/lordsprayer.htm


In a beautiful dissertation, which is a meditation in itself,
Sri Chimnoy, a well known spiritual teacher, offers several
insights contrasting prayer and meditation. He summarizes:
"Prayer rises; meditation spreads":
http://www.srichinmoy.org/html/spirituality/meditation/meditation/prayer_and_meditation/1_i_pray_i_meditate.htm


The following page, from a site called the Cephas Library,
discusses and cites some of the obviously successful methods
of meditation and contemplation practiced by Teresa of Avila,
and then goes on to indicate that none of this is necessary,
according to the Bible:
http://www.cephas-library.com/wordoffaith/wordofaith_meditation_vs_bible.html


This page, from the Kaballa Online, discusses the differences
between passive and active meditation, favoring the latter as
more productive (though many meditators, such as Teresa of
Avila, begin with passive meditation and proceed into active
as a matter of course):
http://www.kabbalaonline.org/Meditations/jewishmeditation/Active_vs.Passive_Meditation.asp


From Mekaba.org is a page detailing scientific studies which
have confirmed the healing value of both meditation and prayer:
http://www.merkaba.org/sundays-scientific.php


Here is an detailed article by Robert Elias Najemy on the
benefits of meditation from YourPureLife.com:
http://www.yourpurelife.co.uk/articles/membs/meditation.html


This article from Boadachia.com talks of the various forms
of meditation, and makes the point that activities themselves
(such as T'ai Chi, in my experience) can become moving 
meditations:
http://www.boadachia.com/new_age/forms_meditation.htm


Additional information may be found from an exploration of
the links resulting from the Google searches outlined below.

sublime1-ga

meditation vs prayer
://www.google.com/search?q=meditation+vs+prayer

meditation and prayer
://www.google.com/search?q=meditation+and+prayer

"forms of meditation
://www.google.com/search?q=%22forms+of+meditation
soozeality-ga rated this answer:5 out of 5 stars and gave an additional tip of: $3.00
This person was thoughtful, extremely knowledgeable, and I wish the
person were available for our group meeting tonight on this subject.
This was a perfect match in terms of providing a researcher who had
expertise in the subject area and who provided a most thoughtful
answer. I feel gratitude. This was my first experience with Google
answers and it was an uplifting one.

Comments  
Subject: Re: Comparison of Prayer vs Meditation
From: ijazahmad-ga on 24 May 2004 23:51 PDT
 
As I know meditation is too keep your mind free from all thinking
and the main purpose of it is to get relaxation.

where as in Islam prayer is to keep Allah (God) in your mind and main
purpose is not to get relaxiation (although you will get it) but to 
surrendor your self to the orders and wishes of Allah.

Regards
Ijaz Ahmad

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