Hi All,
It's been a while since I needed a real-time
chat room. But I've been getting a lot of interest from
students who want a study course for a professional exam.
I'd like to find a place that lets me set up a real-time
chat, where attendees can type in questions - and be able
to use a forum, as well.
I want to be able to post material on each lesson, and
have the students and instructors be able to post questions
or comments on each one, visible to all students.
It must be password protected, better yet, with a cookie,
so I can see who's there at all times.
I should be able to change the passwords anytime.
I should be able to e-mail participants with announcements,
invitations and lessons.
It needs to have a master control, an instructor control
and student entry - so I guess three levels of access.
I don't mind spending money on it, but it has to be really
easy to set up - or someone has to do it for me, to my specs.
Set-up is to be for a fixed price.
I'd like the system to be able to remain up, long-term
and use the same material (or modifications of postings)
year-after-year. Better yet, I'd prefer to host it on one
of my own sites.
I used to use Delphi, but it's too confusing and I remember
wasting a lot of time getting people into the right places.
I need to know if this is feasible and what it will cost
within a week. And if I do it, it needs to be set up and
running without glitches by the end of June.
If you find me something I end up using, expect a generous tip. |
Clarification of Question by
taxmama-ga
on
31 May 2004 11:30 PDT
Hi Again,
I'll need the answer by June 10th.
After that, I'll have to cancel the question.
Thanks.
|
Request for Question Clarification by
sublime1-ga
on
31 May 2004 16:38 PDT
Hi taxmama...
While I have little experience with the technology and
features offered by Delphi, I have to ask why you couldn't
just use an online community forum at groups.MSN.com.
I've had one for quite awhile, and it seems to me it has
all the features you require. It also has the additional
benefit of being free within the limits of the use of 3MB
of online storage.
It has a built-in bulletin board, or forum, where multiple
topics can be opened and discussed. It has an online calendar
for posting deadlines or dates/times for online chat sessions.
Obviously then, it has an online chatroom for live chat
between members.
As administrator, you have absolute control over the site.
You can setup the community to be hidden from the public
and accessible only by invitation. You can control the
permissions, giving instructors permissions not available
to all members. The site comes with an email address you
can use to send notifications to all members, and members
can set it up to receive emails with every post to the
bulletin board, a daily summary, or a weekly summary.
Lesson materials can be posted on webpages independent
of the bulletin boards, so the discussions can be
archived or deleted at year's end, without losing the
lessons. These webpages can be formatted in html or
simply composed in text and automatically formatted
into webpages. Comments and questions can be posted
in the bulletin boards under an appropriate topic name.
Or, you could post the lessons as the beginning of a
bulletin board topic, with comments and questions to
follow, and, at the end of the year, delete the comments
and questions and leave the lessons posted.
Passwords are chosen by the members when they create
their user id. If a student is done for the year, you
can simply boot them from the site, and they won't be
able to sign in again without your permission. And
only you will have the admin password.
I haven't put my site to intensive use, but I've found
it to be reliable in my experience. Your URL could be
http://groups.msn.com/TaxMama/ or whatever you like.
You need an MSN passport to create a group. It's free
to create one. All you do is choose an ID, giving an
email address and a password. If you already have an
MSN passport, you can create a group right away.
Let me know what you think...
sublime1-ga
|
Clarification of Question by
taxmama-ga
on
31 May 2004 17:08 PDT
Dear Sublime
That sounds quite interesting.
But, per their user agreement, I can't use it:
-----
PERSONAL AND NON-COMMERCIAL USE LIMITATION
You may only use the .NET Passport Services for your own personal and
non-commercial purposes. You must enter into a different legal
agreement with Microsoft if you wish to offer the .NET Passport
Services to users of your own application, Web site, or Web service.
-----
I can't find information about how to pay for commercial use and to
increase the storage.
Can you please find out how to enter into a commercial agreement
and what the costs would be?
We will need to be able to post 5 lessons per class, times 8 classes,
plus an introduction, daily overview and summation - about 50
separate master posts/discussions. We need to be able to include clickable
external links to IRS forms or to my site. I will need 25-50 MB.
Many thanks
Eva
|
Request for Question Clarification by
sublime1-ga
on
31 May 2004 17:40 PDT
I'm on it, Eva. For an idea of what's possible on a commercial
MSN site, check out this very popular customized Lexus site:
http://lexus.msn.com/
sublime1-ga
|
Request for Question Clarification by
sublime1-ga
on
31 May 2004 18:49 PDT
Hi Eva...
After reading over the full page for NET Passport, here:
http://www.passport.net/Consumer/TermsOfUse.asp?lc=1033
I'm inclined to believe you're misinterpreting the Terms
of Use. Note that the Terms of Use are on www.passport.net
Another page from Microsoft notes other major commercial
sites which utilize the NET Passport services in interacting
with their customers:
"Since its launch in 1999, Microsoft® .NET Passport has
become one of the largest online authentication systems
in the world, with more than 200 million accounts
performing more than 3.5 billion authentications each
month. Passport participating sites include Nasdaq,
McAfee, Expedia.com, eBay, Cannon, Groove, Starbucks,
MSN® Hotmail, MSN Messenger, and many more."
http://www.microsoft.com/net/services/passport/business.asp
Companies like Expedia utilize the Net Passport services
on their own site, often modified by their own IT team,
as suggested here:
"For more information about the Passport single sign-in
service or to learn about deployment options, contact us.
Your IT team can start evaluating, developing, and testing
integration with Passport services by accessing the free
Passport Software Development Kit (SDK)."
http://www.microsoft.com/net/services/passport/business.asp
More on NET Passport services in general:
http://www.microsoft.com/net/services/passport/
Also, the Lexus site on MSN Groups was developed by an outside
site design company, Fluent Communications, working with MSN,
which accounts for its unique design and address:
http://www.custompublishingcouncil.com/casestudy.php?id=44
On the other hand, Groups at MSN.com comes with NET Passport
built in, as part of the MSN Groups services, and there are
numerous sites, including mine, at which things are being
sold, as evidenced by the following searches:
"for sale here" site:groups.msn.com
://www.google.com/search?q=%22for+sale+here%22+site%3Agroups.msn.com
149 results
buy site:groups.msn.com
://www.google.com/search?q=buy+site%3Agroups.msn.com
83,000 results
On groups.msn.com, you are using your own personal NET Passport
to sign into your community, and each member is also using their
personal NET Passport to sign in. This is not a commercial use
of NET passport, even if your site there has commercial content.
See?
I would personally recommend simply setting up your 'community'
site and going for it. I offer two products from pages on my site,
and have never heard a thing about it. If, however, you want
to discuss this with someone from MSN, it would seem that the
person to contact regarding E-Commerce and Small Business
Commerce Services (and many other areas) is:
Waggener Edstrom
(503) 443-7000
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/contactpr.asp
sublime1-ga
|
Request for Question Clarification by
sublime1-ga
on
31 May 2004 19:08 PDT
Oops - I forgot to address extra storage.
Recommended for novice Hotmail users
10MB of e-mail storage
3MB attachment limit
30MB of MSN Groups storage
$19.95/year
Once you create your community and log in as administrator,
a link will be on your homepage, to "Get Extra Storage".
Higher fees give you increased amounts of email storage,
but no increase in MSN Groups storage. If you already
have another website to link to, you can store things
there, as well.
sublime1-ga
|
Clarification of Question by
taxmama-ga
on
31 May 2004 22:26 PDT
Hi Sublime,
Thanks for putting all that effort into the MSN groups tool.
Looks like I'll have to call them and find out for sure if I can use
it for a 100% commercial purpose. And to learn what they'll charge
for the extra storage.
Yes, the Lexus site didn't really look relevant. But it was pretty.
But that was only one resource.
Is there anything out there that I can run on my own servers?
I really am not comfortable using anyone else's service. Particularly
a free system. And MSN is a major target for hackers. I can't afford
to go down during that 8 week period. The exam is only offered once a
year. If I mess up their study sessions due to hackers, or MSN suddenly
telling me I can't run the class there...these students don't pass the
exam in 2004 - and they miss tax season 2005. I couldn't bear that.
Thanks
Eva
|
Clarification of Question by
taxmama-ga
on
01 Jun 2004 16:20 PDT
Hi Sumblime,
I called the phone number you provided, this morning.
It's a press office. The only reason they're even willing to consider
looking into my question is because I happen to be a journalist.
Otherwise...that phone number gets me nowhere.
Hopefully, they will find an answer for in the next couple of days.
Otherwise, I have to look for an alternative tool - or not hold the
class.
I can't believe there isn't a software package you can buy for a multi-
user private chat and forum.
Surely someone can find something without personal use restrictions.
Anyone?
Or Sublime, can you find a contact person at MSN Groups who can address
commercial uses? (One way or the other, you will be paid for the time you've
already put in. I appreciate the effort. It's simply not an answer I can use
as it stands.)
I can't be restricted to 30 MB. The limit needs to be at least 50 MB.
I can't stop teaching in the middle of the class because I ran out of
storage.
Repeating the parameters:
"We will need to be able to post 5 lessons per class, times 8 classes,
plus an introduction, daily overview and summation - about 50
separate master posts/discussions. We need to be able to include clickable
external links to IRS forms or to my site. I will need 25-50 MB."
Many Thanks
TaxMama-ga
|
Request for Question Clarification by
sublime1-ga
on
01 Jun 2004 19:19 PDT
Taxmama...
I already searched high and low for any indication of
someone to contact regarding expanded commercial services
on MSN Communities, to include more storage and better
reliability. No luck. My impression is that the Communities
site is meant to be pretty much unmonitored and unassisted.
The press contact was the only one I could find. Sorry.
As I said, there certainly is forum software available, such
as InVision Power Board, phpBB, or PHP-Nuke, but these are
to be installed on a server hosted on a permanent IP address,
and from what I've seen, these don't include live chat, but
must be equipped with it using additional software. Everything
I've seen tells me these are as confusing to use as Delphi.
As far as free forums, Google Groups 2 Beta offers no limits
to storage, that I have found, and has all the privacy and
reliability you could want:
://www.google.com/googlegroups/about.html
The problem is that, again, you have to use a separate venue
for live chat. This is why I was excited about the MSN option,
since it's one of the few services that offers both forum and
chat in one easy interface. The other option would be to use
a separate program for live chat, such as MSN Messenger. It
*is* possible to save the transcripts of these chats, and
they could be posted on the forum site afterward, if desired.
There are any number of chat *or* forum programs, many of which
can be found on this page from ToeJumper.net:
http://www.toejumper.net/rescue3/sharechat.htm
Conferencing software also exist, which *might* meet your needs,
such as Blaxxun's Presentation Center 7, but it sells for $1200.
There is some indication that lessons could be stored in the
'presentation' directory and accessed at any time, and that
live chat is possible, but it's difficult to tell if this is
really what you want, especially for the price:
http://www.blaxxun.com/en/products/presentationcenter/index.html
Or you might be able to use another web-based service which
seems to offer all modules you need, MultiCity, though I'm
not sure how they all interface together. You would install
them on your current website, and a package which allows 25
simultaneous users in live chat costs $19.95/month, and allows
for up to 10,000 posts on the message boards for the life of
the board. No other indication of storage limits are given:
http://www.multicity.com/servlet/WebsiteServePage/webmasters/comparison/index
Let me know what you think...
sublime1-ga
|
Request for Question Clarification by
sublime1-ga
on
01 Jun 2004 19:22 PDT
Oh. Here's MultiCity's Small Business Solutions homepage:
http://www.multicity.com/servlet/WebsiteServePage/webmasters/index
|
Request for Question Clarification by
sublime1-ga
on
01 Jun 2004 19:26 PDT
Here's a directory page from Yahoo, where I found MultiCity.
Many other options are listed:
http://dir.yahoo.com/Business_and_Economy/Business_to_Business/Communications_and_Networking/Internet_and_World_Wide_Web/Software/Chat/
|
Clarification of Question by
taxmama-ga
on
01 Jun 2004 20:56 PDT
Dear Sublime,
You've been simply sublime.
You've done a great job digging.
The Google Beta option looks really good - except for the licensing clause.
There is a reason why free is expensive. Now if there were a paid version....
(Editors, are you around?)
I just realized, you never posted an answer. All this discussion is
sitting in the Clarification section.
Please post your answer. You've done a valiant job.
Thank you.
Best wishes
TaxMama-ga
|
Eva...
Thanks for accepting my work as your answer. I'll consolidate
the information here, for future readers:
-------------------------------------------------------
While I have little experience with the technology and
features offered by Delphi, I have to wonder why you can't
just use an online community forum at groups.MSN.com.
I've had one for quite awhile, and it seems to me it has
all the features you require. It also has the additional
benefit of being free within the limits of the use of 3MB
of online storage.
It has a built-in bulletin board, or forum, where multiple
topics can be opened and discussed. It has an online calendar
for posting deadlines or dates/times for online chat sessions.
Obviously then, it has an online chatroom for live chat
between members.
As administrator, you have absolute control over the site.
You can setup the community to be hidden from the public
and accessible only by invitation. You can control the
permissions, giving instructors permissions not available
to all members. The site comes with an email address you
can use to send notifications to all members, and members
can set it up to receive emails with every post to the
bulletin board, a daily summary, or a weekly summary.
Lesson materials can be posted on webpages independent
of the bulletin boards, so the discussions can be
archived or deleted at year's end, without losing the
lessons. These webpages can be formatted in html or
simply composed in text and automatically formatted
into webpages. Comments and questions can be posted
in the bulletin boards under an appropriate topic name.
Or, you could post the lessons as the beginning of a
bulletin board topic, with comments and questions to
follow, and, at the end of the year, delete the comments
and questions and leave the lessons posted.
Passwords are chosen by the members when they create
their user id. If a student is done for the year, you
can simply boot them from the site, and they won't be
able to sign in again without your permission. And
only you will have the admin password.
I haven't put my site to intensive use, but I've found
it to be reliable in my experience. Your URL could be
http://groups.msn.com/TaxMama/ or whatever you like.
You need an MSN passport to create a group. It's free
to create one. All you do is choose an ID, giving an
email address and a password. If you already have an
MSN passport, you can create a group right away.
Extra storage, up to 30 MB, is available for as little
as $19.95. Once you create your community and log in as
administrator, a link will be on your homepage, to
"Get Extra Storage":
Recommended for novice Hotmail users
10MB of e-mail storage
3MB attachment limit
30MB of MSN Groups storage
$19.95/year
Higher fees give you increased amounts of email storage,
but no increase in MSN Groups storage. If you already
have another website to link to, you can store things
there, as well.
There certainly is forum software available, such as InVision
Power Board, phpBB, or PHP-Nuke, but these are to be installed
on a server hosted on a permanent IP address, and from what
I've seen, these don't include live chat, but must be equipped
with it using additional software. Everything I've seen tells
me these are as confusing to use as Delphi was for you.
As far as free forums, Google Groups 2 Beta offers no limits
to storage, that I have found, and has all the privacy and
reliability you could want:
://www.google.com/googlegroups/about.html
The problem is that, again, you have to use a separate venue
for live chat. This is why I was excited about the MSN option,
since it's one of the few services that offers both forum and
chat in one easy interface. The other option would be to use
a separate program for live chat, such as MSN Messenger. It
*is* possible to save the transcripts of these chats, and
they could be posted on the forum site afterward, if desired.
There are any number of chat *or* forum programs, many of which
can be found on this page from ToeJumper.net:
http://www.toejumper.net/rescue3/sharechat.htm
Conferencing software also exists, which *might* meet your needs,
such as Blaxxun's Presentation Center 7, but it sells for $1200.
There is some indication that lessons could be stored in the
'presentation' directory and accessed at any time, and that
live chat is possible, but it's difficult to tell if this is
really what you want, especially for the price:
http://www.blaxxun.com/en/products/presentationcenter/index.html
Or you might be able to use another web-based service which
seems to offer all modules you need, MultiCity, though I'm
not sure how they all interface together. You would install
them on your current website, and a package which allows 25
simultaneous users in live chat costs $19.95/month, and allows
for up to 10,000 posts on the message boards for the life of
the board. No other indication of storage limits are given:
http://www.multicity.com/servlet/WebsiteServePage/webmasters/comparison/index
Here's MultiCity's Small Business Solutions homepage:
http://www.multicity.com/servlet/WebsiteServePage/webmasters/index
Here's a directory page from Yahoo, where I found MultiCity.
Many other options are listed:
http://dir.yahoo.com/Business_and_Economy/Business_to_Business/Communications_and_Networking/Internet_and_World_Wide_Web/Software/Chat/
Please do not rate this answer until you are satisfied that
the answer cannot be improved upon by way of a dialog
established through the "Request for Clarification" process.
sublime1-ga
Additional information may be found from further exploration
of the links provided above, as well as those resulting from
the Google searches outlined below.
Searches done, via Google:
software chat forum
://www.google.com/search?q=software+chat+forum
software "private chat" "private forum"
://www.google.com/search?q=software+%22private+chat%22+%22private+forum%22
software "multi user" "private chat" "private forum"
://www.google.com/search?q=software+%22multi+user%22+%22private+chat%22+%22private+forum%22
multi user "private chat" "private forum"
://www.google.com/search?q=multi+user+%22private+chat%22+%22private+forum%22
google groups 2 beta
://www.google.com/search?q=google+groups+2+beta |
