Hi! I would like to know how we exist... I find it amazing that I am
sitting here prossesing thoughts and controlling my fingers to do the
typing... I would like to know who/what/when/where/why we were
created... this is a serious question please awnser.  Did 'nothing'
get bored and decited to exist? -- therefore giving birth to god?
PLEASE AWNSER!

---

Clarification of Question by wasting_time-ga on 01 Jun 2004 13:31 PDT

neil:  haha very funny "time machine" 

boby_d: um yes boby but how did those sub atomic particles get there
in the first place? yes of course this is a world of cause and effect
and i think most people over the age of 2 can understand that... lets
say i shoot sombody then the effect would be their death and a further
effect would be i go to jail and that would trigger the effect of me
getting but raped and that in time would cause the effect of a long
term relationship which in the future would save sombodys life when me
and my new boy friend stop that man from robbing the liquor store...
(we wouldnt be at that store at that moment if it wasnt for cause and
effect) anyways it sounds like your "anti god" in your responce and
you yourself are not sure what to believe... first of all christians
didnt invent the concept of "god" and i wonder why you pick on them?
hummmm alot of people try to use reason and science to explain god and
i think its quite funny because so many people are lost. anyways i do
not agree with the scientist theroy (alot of scientists are idiots ;)


Before the Big Bang?  Scientists theorise that there existed a certain
nothingness, comprised of (if memory serves, which is unlikely) around
36 fields - describing how matter is to be allowed to exist (for
example, form in protons, neutrons, electrons, in a certain fashion to
create atoms - and, of course, on a sub-sub-atomics level, the
structure and behavious of quarks.)  Apparently there was some shift
or disturbance in this field that triggered the big bang.

no i dont agree with the above paragraph because how did that matter
come about in the first place? they were just there all the time? i
think not,  i think before everything existed there was nothing, a
zero dimention, no colors, no sound, no atoms, nothing (picture being
blind and deaf)
 and somthig obviousley happend to give life to this dimention, like
it colapsed on itself or somthing. anyways try next time to give an
awnser and not a long version of "knbody knows" i am open to hear
people ideas and not science jibberish i have heard millions of times.

P.S. i seem allitle rude because as an advocate of good i do respect
the concepts of christian religion, althoe alot of christians are
idiots it is a force of good so it must be respected

Great Question.

I don't know the Answer but it sure is fun to be here, isn't it?

ya it can be fun, unless your born into some 3rd world country... im
not really having any fun althoe i want too, im in a position in life
where i cant :(

im not from a 3rd world country btw

Most religions regard God as having neither beginning nor end. Mormons
= the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints do believe God had a
begining long ago much like we began. Some science fiction writers
suggest someone with a time machine went back in time and caused the
creation of God.  Neil

Would love to answer, but always hesitant with questions of this genre.

If you believe that everything in the universe must have a cause (ie,
that everything exists on cause and effect), one must be forced to
believe that either the world has no temporal beginning or that there
is some ultimate effect that has no cause (christian philosophers call
this effect God - this is ultimately the philosophical argument for
god's existence).  However, many refuse to accept a world of cause and
effect, particularly with the recent discovery of Quantum mechanics in
the 20th century - and the Uncertainty Principle - that in fact,
things occur on a sub-atomic level that are completely random and have
no cause.

Before the Big Bang?  Scientists theorise that there existed a certain
nothingness, comprised of (if memory serves, which is unlikely) around
36 fields - describing how matter is to be allowed to exist (for
example, form in protons, neutrons, electrons, in a certain fashion to
create atoms - and, of course, on a sub-sub-atomics level, the
structure and behavious of quarks.)  Apparently there was some shift
or disturbance in this field that triggered the big bang.

What exactly was this trigger?  What was there before this field?

Who knows.

But food for brain.  Particularly that of probonopublico, it appears. ;)

bobby_d

To Wasting time Ga; This is the question that men have been asking
themselves for aeons. The ancient Greeks did it and developed
philosophy. Ancient tribal peoples in Europe and the Americas thought
about it and tied in their beliefs with what they could see in the
night sky. Then the CREATOR of men chose ONE man who had a belief in a
single all-powerful entity or god, to let all men know their origin.
The man was Abram, later Abraham, and his history was later written
down as the "Old Testament" by Moses. This writing was preserved from
change by God himself. These writings we now know to be the Bible. The
whole story of man`s beginning at Adam and Eve right up to the
writings of the Apostle John in his old age. The Bible relates how God
created man and woman, established marriage [ in the sight of God] how
the human numbers increased, how badness entered the world via Satan,
and his Nephilim, how the earth was cleansed of bad people, except
eight, in the worldwide flood, and how the numbers of humans on the
earth again increased to the time of Moses.. Moses through the direct
inspiration of God, was directed to put it all in writing for the
benefit of all future generations. When after 1500 years, God
fulfilled the prophecy at Genesis 3;15, The meaning of the "bruising"
in the head, and in the heel differentiates between a death dealing
injury and a serious but non lethal injury. Satan would be
instrumental in having Jesus killed, but God would resurrect Jesus to
heavenly life, this being the non lethal injury. The death dealing
injury will be to Satan, when he and his demons will be done away with
permanently and no longer have any bad influence in the lives of men.
The whole Bible has a single theme. the future coming of God`s
Kingdom, where all men will obey God`s rules. It is up to us to learn
them and if we dont, the results are very plain in Second
Thessalonians 1;8. And what is God`s desire for us?. First Timothy
2;4...whose will is that all sorts of men should be saved, AND COME TO
AN ACCURATE KNOWLEDGE OF TRUTH . Can we change?. Second Timothy
3;14..You, however, continue in the things that you learned, AND WERE
PERSUADED TO BELIEVE, knowing from what persons you learned them. So
it is up to us to believe that God has written down his instructions
and for us to follow them. If the Bible says there is one God with one
son, why believe a religion that says there are multiple gods. If the
Bible says pray to God ONLY through Jesus, why try and pray through so
called "saints". If the Bible says there is an evil being called
Satan, [Revelation 12;7-9] why believe any religion that says that
evil is from only us?..The accurate information is right there in
writing in front of us...in the Bible.

...

woah calm down... first of all i know all of what you speak of. try to
compare science with the bible... for example when god cast out satan
into hell i look at that as sort of chemical or some kind of reaction
of two oppisite forces, anyways thats besides the question... i want
to know the exact cause of everything and how it started out.  oh and
to clear up matters on my last comment i am not against science at
all, its just silly when scientists try to become masters of the
universe because they rely on educated guesses that are quite far
fetched :)

oh and one more thing... no im not cool with evil but one thing i do
know, in a funny way "satan" is gods servant cause without evil what
is good? (kinda like the yin yang) so if one wanted to truley destroy
the force of good they would have to destroy evil.

An interesting question and since you've referenced the Christian
concept of Satan, I've always wondered this:

If the Christian God is all powerful and controls everything, then
that God controls Satan as well.  If this is, indeed, the case,
wouldn't that mean the Christian God is responsible for everything
that Satan allegedly does?

Perhaps both our questions will go unanswered...lol

Best regards,
journalist-ga

There seems to be an assumption in this dialogue that Time moves in
only one direction.  That is, I exist and therefore something must
have come before to create me.  By analogy we convince ourselves that
since the Universe exists something must have come before to create
it; and something came before to that; and so on.

That argument sounds very much like I cannot finish the race because I
run halfway to the finish line and take a break, and then I run
halfway from there to the finish line and have another break.  If I
only ever go halfway from where I start to where I am to finish, then
I will never finish because I can always divide the distance in half
no matter how infinitesimally small that distance may be.

Now, anyone who has ever finished a race knows that this argument is
ludicrous.  I propose that it is equally ludicrous to assume that
there is a state where the Universe does NOT exist and therefore needs
to be created.  (I am stating my thesis in the present tense and I am
making the assumption that Time is one of the dimensions of the
Universe and that it is possible to be anywhere within its topological
space; and therefore temporality of tense is mute.)

The Universe DOES exist, I exist, you exist, and wasting_time-ga
exists.  Some things, like existence just needs to be accepted.  I do
not think that I have sufficient imagination to comprehend the true
nature of the Universe.  My significance is very small and my
perspective is narrow ? I live a VERY short time on a cosmological
scale, I see time as only moving forward, I can only capture knowledge
about things that my senses can perceive.

If we met someone who truly understood the Universe and who agreed to
explain it to us, I am not sure we would have the frame of reference
necessary to understand the explanation.  I think this may be a ?Time
Wasting? exercise because we are not asking the right questions to
find the answers that we really want to know.  If we could formulate
the right questions, then we would be a lot closer to understanding
the nature of the Universe.

blitzen-ga --

I agree with you (and enjoyed what you had to say).  Of course, as a
member of a the universe, it IS very difficult for us to examine how
it is that we exist within (or 'imagine', if you wish).  And of
course, time is not  disparate from space, a concept difficult for us
to comprehend with our thorough knowledge and belief in the concepts
of speed, acceleration, movement, and all of that.

There are of course those that before cause and effect does not exist.
 And not only is there no proof that it does exist, there is now proof
that it doesn't exist - with Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle.  So
why should there exist a cause of the universe? (I know I have
reverted to a straight-line view of time, but I wanted to get that in
:p)

happy thinking.

bobby_d-ga

Possibly interesting paper for you:

http://bat.phys.unsw.edu.au/~charley/papers/Thermobiology4color.pdf

ahhh yes blitzen... your comment was taken into concideration by me
before i posted my original question... this "assumption" of how the
universe works as in that everything came from somthing is somthing we
humans know for sure... allow me to explain... define common sence...
do you get it now? it is the order of our known universe and so far
unless somthing really crazy happens it will remain that way.   cicken
or the egg?

journalist:   yes in a way it is... "god" controlling "satan" is
nothing more then the circle of life... lets say some sadists get off
on throwing babys in blenders or somthing sick like that... why would
god allow such brutality? well if you think about it you would have to
know the awnser of what happens when we die and the afterlife... one
thing i do know for sure is that childs pain is somthing temporary in
this world (this is why i dont fear death or anything for that matter)
when that childs dies then what pain did he ever experience? i mean
he/she is dead so it kinda never happend. but i do believe that before
innocent blood is spilled weather its a baby or an adult that the
person goes through no pain... like the body knows death is near and
shuts off before pain

wschloss:  holy sh*t!!!!!!! SCIENCE GIBBERISH!!!!!! i swear to god the
nut case who wasted his time on that pdf is a good example of how
using science to explain the cosmos can lead to improper thought paths
being carved out in his brain.

blitzen:  ahh yes one more comment for you before i go... this regards
your second comment... please take one thing into concideration...
what is "time"? it is somthing we humans invented to track our seasons
and what not... i guess farmers inveted it or somthing, anyways
changing subjects allitle, time does not really exist, it is somthing
we use to document to movement of life and therefore time travel and
einstiens theroy of relativity is BULL!!! SCIENCE GIBBERIH!!!!!!  
anyways i havent read up on einstiens theroy in a long time (correct
me if im wrong) but if you travel away from earth at the speed of
light or even faster (assuming you dont turn into light itself from
going that fast) and came back, i am sorry to say that nothing special
will happen... lets say you left for 30 mins going at the speed of
light and then came back going the same speed... only 1 hour would
have passed by.. it took you 30 mins to get there and 30 mins to come
back... nothing more... nothing less... does that provide a better
defeinition of common sence? lol  damn i have really bad spelling :P