I am working on a project to collect the autograph of every boxer
Muhammad Ali ever fought-of the 50 boxers Ali faced I am missing the
signature of Alejandro Lavorante-Lavorante fought Ali on 7/20/62 and
in his next fight in LA on 9/21/62 was critically injured and died in
Argentina on 4/01/64.I am looking to locate the signature of
Mr.Lavorante preferably on a fight contract, insurance
policy,application or any such document.Have been in touch with
numerous memorobilia dealers  with no luck-Will pay a generous fee for
the signature- Can you help me locate this missing autograph?

---

Request for Question Clarification by guillermo-ga on 10 Jul 2002 13:42 PDT

Hello, Flash-GA,
As I am in Argentina, I was able to make direct contact with a major
box management organization in this country. They’re quite likely to
have what you're asking for, but the person I contacted in the company
asked me to call back next week, since these are very old files
they’ll have to search through. If they confirm they have it, still
the consent to make it available might be something they wouldn’t
discuss with me. If this company confirms they have a documented
signature of Mr. Alejandro Lavorante, would you accept as an answer
their contact information, so you can discuss directly with them how
to obtain it?
Sincerely,
Guillermo

---

Clarification of Question by flash-ga on 10 Jul 2002 15:53 PDT

Dear Guillermo-ga
   Thanks so much for taking the time to research and answer my
question relative to locating a documented Alejandro Lavorante
signature. As I review your researcher ratings you appear to be
Intelligent, Aggressive and Connected;
Just the type of person that would be a wonderfuladdition to my team.
   I would like to suggest that since you are in Argentina, speak the
language
and have the contacts, succesfully completing this task is a lot more
likely with you as the point person. If the management organization
does in fact have the Lavorante autograph and you can obtain it for me
I willdouble your fee to $200. Obviously, any costs incurred for the
signature will be covered at my
end- if the management group doesn't have the signature or wont
release itthen we both lose.
   Hoping these terms are satisfactory. Will anxiously await your
reply.
                                         Warmest Regards,
                                               Stephen.

---

Request for Question Clarification by guillermo-ga on 10 Jul 2002 21:11 PDT

Dear Stephen,

In first place, let me thank you for your comments about my
performance on previous works, I wish to honor them in this case. I
like and accept the challenge you offer me. Let me suggest you a
procedure to establish the deal.
You should repost this question pricing it $200, adding in the subject
“job for Guillermo-ga only”, and make sure you mention why you want
this specific researcher, as stated in your question clarification --I
don’t mean the praise, but the fact of being in Argentina, having
established contacts, etc.. I think it would be convenient for the
negotiation --and the negotiator-- to prevent double searching that
could lead to the same people at the same time.
If in a reasonable time, say too weeks, I hadn’t succeeded or at least
showed consistent information proving I’m close to it, you could
always reopen the question for other researchers’ try, and even change
the price again to its original. No need to say I wouldn’t get --and
you wouldn’t loose-- any money until you get what you’re looking for.
Hoping you agree with my suggestion, I await your answer.
Best regards,
Guillermo

---

Clarification of Question by flash-ga on 11 Jul 2002 06:02 PDT

Dear Guillermo- Thanks for the expeditious response- will immediately
edit the question parameters & increase the pricing to $200.00 for
answering this question. While that is no problem, I am somewhat
apprehensive about limiting my potential sources for answering this
question to just you. By limiting my options to just you, reseachers
worldwide who may have other ways or methods of potentially answering
this question are out of the loop. In addition, if you are my only
source & are unable to obtain Mr. Lavorante's signature my project
then has a stale taste to other researchers. As a businessman, I have
found that competition is healthy- I hope you accept the challenge!
Warmest regards Stephen

---

Request for Question Clarification by guillermo-ga on 11 Jul 2002 16:25 PDT

Dear Stephen,

I absolutly understand your aprehension, and apologize for having
misunderstood that part of your previous message, believing you'd
prefer a single researcher in order to avoid complications to an
eventual negotiation with a potential provider of Lavorante's
signature. Of course I take the challenge, trusting in my
competitiveness. And if any fellow researcher gets it earlier, that'll
be fair game!

Best Regards,

Guillermo

---

Clarification of Question by flash-ga on 12 Jul 2002 06:09 PDT

Dear Guillermo- Welcome aboard- Wishing you the best of luck in your
efforts  to find the Holy Grail! Please stay in touch. Warmest
regards- Srephen

---

Clarification of Question by flash-ga on 12 Jul 2002 07:03 PDT

Dear 4Keith

Thanks for the interest in my Muhammad Ali project.  While there are
several other signatures that are needed to complete the task at hand,
I would like this particular inquiry to focus in on Lavorante.  In the
very near future, I will post individual questions requesting
information on the other missing autographs.

If you have access or a connection to Mr. Lavorante's family in
Argentina, I would be very enthuastic about you contacting them about
locating this signature.

Thanks for your suggestions about buying the 1961 Boxing Ring Magazine
and contacting the WBO.  By the way, the $200.00 research fee is
burning a hole in my pocket-I wish you and all the other researchers
the best of luck in answering this question.  I hope that we can both
hit the jackpot!

Good luck - Stay in Touch!
                              Warmest Regards,
                              Stephen/Flash

---

Clarification of Question by flash-ga on 12 Jul 2002 12:24 PDT

Dear 4Keith-Thanhs for your interest in my Muhammad Ali
project-without question you are a crackerjack when it comes to
locating information-your suggestion to touch base with Pinky George
is very ingenious- great minds must think alike because I had the same
thought- unfortunately Pinky has in fact passed away & while his son
was quite cordial he had no access to Mr. Lavorante's autograph. Your
suggestion to contact Mr. Lavorante's attending physician is also
insightful-will try to contact him & will advise- Thanks for all your
help-you are GOOD-enjoy your week-end. Warmest regards- Stephen/Flash

---

Request for Question Clarification by guillermo-ga on 15 Jul 2002 09:01 PDT

Dear Stephen,

In order to keep you informed, I'm glad to tell you that I made
contact with Lavorante's sister. She said she may have Alejandro's
passport, but she asked me to talk to her brother first, in a couple
of hours. If we're lucky, this business might be resolved during the
day. Isn't it exciting?

Best regards,

Guillermo

---

Request for Question Clarification by guillermo-ga on 15 Jul 2002 12:18 PDT

Dear Stephen,

Things have slowed down. I talked to Alejandro Lavorante's brother. He
seemed most collaborative, but he said they (he and his sister) don't
keep their brother's passport as she had thought, and couldn't figure
out what other document they might have. There’s one more brother in
another city, who apparently has no telephone number, but the one I
talked to committed himself to write him a letter commenting this
search, and asking him about any document with Alejandro’s signature
he may conserve. Yet, I'll try to trace him myself. Besides, the
Management Company alternative is not yet closed. And there might be
other possibilities.

Well, these are news so far. You must know better than me that this is
a matter-of-patience-job. We still have chances from my part. Whenever
my resources were over, I'll let you know at once.

Regards,

Guillermo

---

Clarification of Question by flash-ga on 15 Jul 2002 14:34 PDT

Dear Guillermo- Thanks so much for your spectacular efforts in our
quest to locate Alejandro Lavorante's autograph-you are a wonderful
partner and I really appreciate your innovative research on this
project-I have found that you have to knock on many doors before the
right one opens-perseverence in this search  and in life itself more
often than not will produce a winning result- keep up the good work-
you are the BEST! I will be patient but as always look forward to
hearing from you. Warmest regards- Stephen

---

Request for Question Clarification by guillermo-ga on 22 Jul 2002 21:57 PDT

Dear Stephen,

Hope you don't mind for not having heard from me for one week, but it
doesn't mean I gave up -on the contrary, in that case you would have
had my news-, it's just that I had no significant news to tell you.
Now, a few hours ago I made contact with a nephew of Alejandro
Lavorante. I think this is our very last chance on the relatives lead.
He was very kind, and told me he'd ask his father (Alejandro's
brother) if they keep any document containing what we're looking for.
I should have an answer from him tomorrow night. I'll let you know as
soon as I hear from him.

Best regards,

Guillermo

---

Clarification of Question by flash-ga on 23 Jul 2002 05:59 PDT

Dear Guillermo- Nice to hear from you- thanks for the update-I
certainly hope that the Lavorante family can help us-you have
certainly proven to be a relentless partner in this project-I hope
that both of us will see the fruits of our labor-by the way have you
heard anything from the boxing management organization in Argentina
you wrote about on 7/10? As always looking forward to hearing from
you- best of luck-Warmest regards Stephen

---

Request for Question Clarification by guillermo-ga on 23 Jul 2002 09:08 PDT

Hi, Stephen,

Sorry for having forgot to update you about the organizational lead,
just because I centered in the family one. Actually, I made contact
with two organizations -the one I'd already told you, and a box
association. Unfortunately, as representatives of them both told me,
they don't seem to keep archives of such old documents. Still, I would
try again if family contact doesn't work, since may be they’re just
reluctant to do the job of searching in very old archives.

Best regards,

Guillermo

---

Clarification of Question by flash-ga on 23 Jul 2002 11:23 PDT

Dear Guillermo-Thanks for the update on the boxing organizations in
Argentina-I really believe if there is a Lavorante autograph in
Argentina you will find it!Good luck- I'll keep my fingures crossed.
Warmest regards- Stephen

---

Request for Question Clarification by guillermo-ga on 27 Jul 2002 15:17 PDT

Dear Stephen,

I couldn’t avoid a little reluctance to post this message, but you
count on me and here I am. We’ve had no luck with Alejandro
Lavorante’s relatives. His nephew has sent me an email saying that
after searching thoroughly with his father (Alejandro’s brother) among
their things, it was no use.

This is the situation now: Family lead is gone. Organizational lead is
not, but I hadn’t got to the highest levels of their management yet,
for it takes some time. The problem is that your question expires in
one week from now, and I don’t think this would be time enough to
contact all the people I would have to.

I’m ready to not give up, and I’ll try to take the most out of the
remaining time, but I might need to feel free to schedule interviews
for the next week. If you consider this as a possibility, the question
can be posted again -you should ask the Google Answers Team how to do
this.

Regardless what your decision will be, I’ll sustain my efforts until
the last minute.

Best regards,

Guillermo

---

Clarification of Question by flash-ga on 28 Jul 2002 04:20 PDT

Dear Guillermo-Obviously it is disappointing to hear that Alejandro's
family cannot help us-but your efforts are becoming
legendary-hopefully the boxing organization will be able to
accommodate us in our search this week, however if you need more time
I will definitely repost the question.Please don't get discouraged-if
anyone can locate this signature your the one.As always thanks for all
your help- you are a great partner! Warmest regards Stephen

---

Request for Question Clarification by guillermo-ga on 28 Jul 2002 09:25 PDT

Dear Stephen,

Thanks for your encouragement, and for being disposed to repost the
question. About this, please notice that I made a mistake about
current deadline. There is not a complete week as I said but only
three days left.

It’s good to know that our endeavor is still on.

Best regards,

Guillermo

---

Clarification of Question by flash-ga on 29 Jul 2002 05:32 PDT

Dear Guillermo- Happy Monday morning-Again no need to worry about this
 question lapsing- Will repost this question on 8/01/2002-Remember I
want and need  the Lavorante autograph- We both have too much time and
effort invested for me to abandon ship- Also please note interesting
comments and worthwhile suggestions from Lrargerich in comment section
yesterday 7/28/02- Perhaps they will help you/us in our efforts to
locate a Lavorante signature-Best of luck- Hope you have a fruitful
and enjoyable day- Warmest regards- Stephen

Dear flash - 
  I've been at the search for a good hour or two and nothing much is
turning up.  As you probably know, it's difficult to find Internet
information on non- or semi-famous persons who died before the Web
came into general usage.  But, at the very least I can tell you (and
Researchers) some places that didn't work out.

Here are my notes on some of the sites I visited:
http://www.boxingcollectors.com/  [Subscribing to the Boxing
Collector's News might get you somewhere, but be wary - the website
looks a bit out of date.]
  
http://www.2000group.uk.com/boxing/index.htm [Nothing of use - don't
bother]

http://www.heavyweights.co.uk/ [Nothing of use - don't bother]

http://richardsimonsports.com/boxing.htm [Nothing of use - don't
bother]

http://www.boxpics.com/  [Not useful - he's only been taking pictures
for 12 years]

http://www.boxing.clara.net/links.htm  [Non-working/non-helpful links]

http://www.sportizus.com/cgi-bin/SportingMemorabilia.storefront [Not
useful]

http://store.yahoo.com/qam/otsporfootho.html
[Although these guys are purporting to offer a Marcel Cerdan
autograph, searches of their pages do not turn up the word
"Alejandro"... on the other hand they may be worth emailing/calling as
they say they don't have everything listed online. Here's their
information:
"Quality Autographs & Memorabilia of Virginia
P.O. Box 25274
Alexandria, VA 22314
Phone: (703) 519-9881
Fax : (703) 519-9850
email: qualityautographs@msn.com]


  You may have to do this the "old-fashioned way" as you have been -
call up a bunch of dealers and ask them about it.  Sorry I couldn't be
more help.
~hippychick

Here are the searches I used.
On dmoz (the Open Directory):
vintage autographs
Alejandro box* [no results]
Alejandro Lavorante [no results]
On Google:
Alejandro Lavorante [about 117 results, nothing useful in the top
couple of pages at least]
Alejandro Lavorante autograph* [no results!]
dealer* boxing vintage autograph* sport* [about 200 results]

Hello,

Alejandro Lavorante is an interesting story. The fight against Cassius
Clay was his second-last. In his next fight, he died in the ring.

Because Lavorante was from Argentina, I would think your best bet
would be to check Argentine sources. I found the following:

Federation Argentina de Box
<www.fabox.com.ar>
fabox@fibertel.com.ar
011 (54-11) 4981-2965

Union Periodistas de Boxeo de la Republica Argentina
<www.uperbox.com.ar>
info@uperbox.com.ar
011 (5411) 4981-2965

You might also ask for leads in soc.culture.argentina, which seems to
carry some discussion about boxing.

Good luck.

7-11-02

DEAR FLASH-GA:

Certainly is going to be an interesting search you have provoked--I'll
bet it will be a little bit difficult to find what you are looking
for, but certainly not impossible.

It would help with the search if you knew some background information
about Alejandro:  what was the name of the person or agency who
managed him/promoter/boxing coach, etc.  The website
www.jameskramersports.com carries a November 1961 issue of BOXING RING
magazine (with a feature article about Alejandro) that could give some
valuable clues to help locate information.  IL suggest you consider
buying it ($17 + shipping) and then repost your question with some
more helpful information.  Have you contacted the Ali official website
or the Ali official memorabilia website to ask for their assistance in
possibly locating the contract for the Ali-Lavorante fight?

It might also be possible to locate surviving members of his family in
Mendoza, Argentina.  Would you be interested in my researching the
family to see if they might have some items they would be interested
in letting you have or buy? It sure is a shame he died at such a young
age (27).

Is this the only signature that prevents you from having a complete
collection of the 50 boxers or are there others you still are looking
for?

RESPECTFULLY
4keith-ga

7-11-2002

In my previous posting today, I forgot to mention that you should
contact the following organization to see if they have anything in
their files about Mr. Lavorante:

WORLD BOXING ORG. (INTER-CONTINENTAL)
333 W WASHINGTON BLVD.
LOS ANGELES, CA 90015        Phone (213) 765-8156

Dear 4Keith, 

Please see the question clarification area above.  Thanks!

FRIDAY, JULY 12, 2002

DEAR STEPHEN:

A March 24, 1962 SATURDAY EVENING POST ARTICLE mentions that
Alejandro's manager's name at the time of the Ali fight was "PINKY"
GEORGE (Paul L. George) from Des Moines, IA who also created the NWA
(National Wrestling Alliance).  Pinky is probably deceased by now, but
there is a listing for a PAUL B. GEORGE, 3716 Fleur Dr., Des Moines,
IA 50321-2118, phone 515-285-3966.  Maybe this is Pinky's son, and you
should call or write him to ask if he is related and if perhaps he
might have some of Pinky's memorabilia/papers in storage and could
check to see if there is anything there with Mr. Lavorante's signature
on it.

Also, a Sept. 27, 1963 article in LIFE magazine mentions that
Lavorante, after he was injured, was attended to by a California
Athletic Commission physician Dr. Robert Rocke, MD in Los Angeles at
California Hospital (apparently he is still practicing--at 930 Uclan
Dr., Burbank, CA 91504, phone 818-848-8777). If I were you I would
call or write Dr. Rocke to get his opinion of whether or not there
would be documents in the California Athletic Commission
archives/files that would have Lavorante's signature on them.  He
might have connections to be able to go look at the files or ask
someone on the staff to do it.

Or, if you prefer, you could contact the California Athletic
Commission directly (their website is www.dca.ca.gov/csac/) or writing
them at Athletic Commission, 1424 Howe Ave., Suite 33, Sacramento, CA
95825-3217, phone (916) 263-2195, e-mail boxing@dca.ca.gov, but I
think they would possibly give you the brush-off if they didn't have
time to look up old records, which is why I recommended you contact
Dr. Rocke first.

It also mentions that the Lavorante family (his 3 brothers and 1
sister) live in the Rosario, Argentina area.

I just wanted to provide these leads/options for your information,
just in case your contact in Argentina was unsuccessful.  With a
little bit of patience and a little bit of luck, I think you WILL
eventually get what you are looking for!

SINCERELY,
4keith-ga

FRI, JULY 12, 2002

DEAR STEPHEN:

In my previous posting to you today, I had intended to list the
address and phone number for the California State Athletic Commission
in Los Angeles, but I mistakenly posted Sacramento, CA.  Since
Lavorante and his manager fought in LA, they probably had to do some
type of registration and other official paperwork in LA that might be
in the files there.  I apologize for the mistake.

Here is the correct information:

CSAC
LOS ANGELES OFFICE
5757 W. CENTURY BLVD, GF-16
LOS ANGELES, CA 90045       Phone (310) 641-8668

SINCERELY,
4keith

7-18-2002

DEAR FLASH:

The Lavorante/Johnny Riggins fight in which he was seriously injured
took place in September 1962 at the Olympic Auditorium in Los Angeles.
 Just a suggestion--visit their website at www.grandoly.com and get
their mailing address and send them a letter asking if they could
check their files to see if they have any documents with his
signature--fight contract, autographed ticket stubs, autograph, boxing
memorabilia, etc.

SINCERELY,
4keith-ga

7-22-2002

Since Alejandro died young, his autograph is going to be a little bit
more rare and a little more difficult to find.  If I were you, I would
try to reach Alejandro's fans by placing a small classified ad,
costing about $150-$250, in the LOS ANGELES TIMES newspaper (Sunday
edition--gets the most readership)--their website is www.latimes.com,
click on Place An Ad--as follows, in their PERSONAL MESSAGES or some
other section:

BOXING MEMORABILIA--Looking for the authentic autograph/signature of
Argentine boxer ALEJANDRO LAVORANGE whose last fight was with Johnny
Riggins in Sept. 1962 at LA's Olympic Auditorium.  Contact Mr. Stephen
Doe at 1234 Easy St., City, State/Zip, (543) 222-2222, or e-mail
address -------@-----.com."

SINCERELY,
4keith-ga

Dear 4Keith- Thanks again for all your wonderful input & insightful
ideas relative to locating Alejandro Lavorante's autograph- still no
luck yet but we are certainly not giving up hope-our contact in
Argentina is still diligently working to find our holy grail -I'm
hoping he'll hit the jackpot before too long-by the way, per your
suggestion I spoke with Dr. Rocke who was very congenial but
unfortunately couldn't help in locating Lavorante's autograph-If you
should have any more thoughts or inspirations please feel fre to touch
base-Thanks again for all your assistance.Warmest regards- Stephen

Hi Stephen and Guillermo!

When Stephen very posted his answer about Lavorante's autograph, I did
some research. I just wanted to tell you guys what I found out in
order to help you:

1) I called the national archive in Buenos Aires (Archivo General de
la Nacion), they have an autograph archive. But they do not have
neither autographs or pictures from Mr. Lavorante.

2) I was in contact with Carlos Irusta, apparently the most important
box journalist from THE sports magazine in Argentina, El Grafico
(which already existed when Lavorante was alive). He told me this is a
hard-to-get autograph, because of the young age he died at. Irusta
also owns a magazine named Ring Side.

3) I called the Luna Park (Buenos Aire's Madisson Square Garden). They
do not hold an archive.

4) I saw the Argentinian movie "Gatica, el mono" (great film about the
Boxer). I wonder if the director, Leonardo Fabio, would have a key for
this research. Please, Guillermo, if you try this one, let me know :)

I'm sure this autograph must exist somewhere... I, as you both do,
just wonder where :)

It was easyer for me to find the Evangelista's autograph since he is
alive, and there was a film about his life.

Good luck!

Lrargerich

Dear lrargerich-Thanks so much for sharing your incredible research
with us-You certainly are most generous,intelligent and innovative- I
have passed along your thoughts and suggestions to Guillermo-Between
the the three of us we should be able to locate this very elusive
autogragh-By the way do you think it would be fruitful to advertise
for this autograph in one of Mr. Irusta's magazines? Again thank you
for all your help with both Alfredo Evangelista and now Alejandro
Lavorante-You are indeed a very special person! Best wishes for a
happy and rewarding day- Warmest regards- Stephen

Let's see... Carlos Irusta works for El Grafico and owns Ring Side
magazine.
Although El Grafico seems to be much important, Ring Side must be
focused in the box-target. I'm afraid that if you post a message in
Ring Side asking for the autograph (and if anyone answers) you will be
asked to pay too much for it, as you've already experienced.
1) You can post a msg explicitating how much you are willing to pay
for it (no need to say you are a foreigner).
2) You can post a msg asking for information related to Mr.Lavorante.
and then, if anyone contacts you back, you can ask for the autograph.
Since Google Answers prefers not to display personal information, I'm
unable to give you Irusta's mail. Anyway, if you want to try this new
strategy, I'm sure we can find a fair way to do it.
Regards, 
Lrargerich

Dear LRArgerich,

First of all, congrats for your performance with Evangelista's
autograph, especially for the way you finally found it. And also
thanks a lot for your leads and ideas to get Lavorante's one. About
some of them, well, we've walked on the same paths! In one of those
places, I was told once about the "coincidence" of someone else asking
for the same thing. Now I can figure out who was ;-) - I hadn't
thought of the AGN -that was a clever one, despite it didn't work.
Take for sure that you'll now if I try one of your ideas. Well, thanks
again, hoping to be able to complete the Rioplatense chapter of
Stephen's collection. And thanks Stephen too, for pointing out
LRArgerich's comments.

Best regards,

Guillermo

Dear Lrargerich-Happy Tuesday morning-hope all is well-thanks for the
info on Mr. Irusta's magazines- In fairness to Guillermo I think  that
I will sit tight until he has exhausted all his sources for the
Lavorante autograph-If we hit a wall then we can try a different
search method- By the way I sent Mr. Filipovich another email raising
my offer for the Evangelista signature to $350.. and my wife! Maybe he
has a sense of humor-Again thanks for all your help! Enjoy your
day-Warmest regards- Stephen