I need to digitally record the audio of a lecture that lasts for 45-60
minutes. The most important thing is price.  The second is audio
quality. The third most important thing to me is a compact file size.

I've tried using a "digital voice recorder" - which produces either
WAVs or MP3s - but the quality is far worse than when I record the
lecture with a cheap, old tape recorder, then transfer it to my
computer via a cable from the earphone plug of the tape player to the
microphone jack of the computer. (What an awful run-on sentence! :-)

The problems with that approach are: 
1) it's a pain to go through all of those extra steps for nothing, and 
2) the resulting quality is not what I consider "digital quality" 

Do you have any advice on what type of recorder to use to record this
lecture digitally in high quality (CD quality?) audio files? I'm ready
to purchase anything used off of eBay that will do the job.  The
cheaper the better.  Someone told me of a setting called "AGC" - a
recording setting on voice recorders on a digital recorder called the
"iRiver 180" or something like that for the quality of the recording. 
Does that sound familiar at all? He said that should do it.

So my question is: what's the most cost-efficient recorder that can do
this? Do I need a "voice recorder" (like an iRiver), an "MP3
recorder," are those the same thing, a mini-disc, or something else? 
Which brands are the best quality?  I'm not looking for lots of fancy
features, etc.

I checked eBay for DATs. They seem a bit more than I was looking to
spend. Isn't there some more economical solution of audio quality
that's somewhere between the quality of a regular old analog tape
recorder and that of a CD? (It doesn't have to be recording studio
perfection.) Just at least as good as an analog tape recorder -
preferably better.

I am looking for something simple to use - without lots of dials,
settings, etc.  It doesn't need to have any tapes or disks - i.e. if a
digital recorder (like an iRiver) satisfies the qualifications that
I'm looking for - that's fine, too.

Thanks so much, 
Eliezer

---

Clarification of Question by reblazer-ga on 10 Jun 2004 08:04 PDT

rcarr, Crythias, and phild, thank you all for your quick replies.



rcarr:
Do you have any recommendations on a brand or style of microphone that
would suit my recording needs?  Ideally - if it doesn't impact the
price too much, I'd prefer a stereo microphone that has separable
right and left microphones so that I could put one in one place and
the other a small distance away.  But if that drives up the price
(even mildly), I'd do with a "single" microphone.
I live in Chicago, however, I plan I plan on making my purchases on eBay.
You mentioned that the downside of MiniDisc is that I'd have to
connect it via USB to my computer.  Aren't all media that way?
Are MiniDiscs re-recordable?



crythias:
All I've tried in the "voice recorder" category is the "iRiver
ifp-180".  When I uploaded the file to my computer and burnt it onto a
CD, it sounded worse than the quality from an analog tape transferred
to my computer:  highly disappointing.  I am *not at all* ruling out
ALL voice recorders.  If it meets my needs/criteria, I'm interested. 
How does the quality of voice recording from your Olympus rate in
comparison with that of an analog tape and that of CD-quality?
By the way, Crythias, what do you mean when you said "I and my users"?



Phild:
Interesting.  How would you say quality of voice recording from your
iRiver rate in comparison with that of an analog tape and that of
CD-quality?  Do you think the problem I experienced was due to the
(poor) quality of the internal microphone of the iRiver?  How about
price considerations:  are all iRivers (even the most basic ones) of
equal recording quality as far as my particular needs go?  I'm not
looking to spend a lot here.  Are there specific models you'd
recommend?



Thanks very much to all three of you,
Eliezer

---

Clarification of Question by reblazer-ga on 11 Jun 2004 11:21 PDT

Is it possible that the quality of the iRiver itself - or perhaps the
quality of all digital voice recorders, for that matter - is not the
problem at all, but rather it's just the internal microphone that
diminishes the sound quality, and a good external microphone would
boost it up to CD quality recordings?

Eliezer

---

Clarification of Question by reblazer-ga on 08 Jul 2004 08:21 PDT

Calmstrand,

Thanks for that link!  I see they offer a free "SP-SPSM-16 Cardioid
sterio T microphone" - is that the same as what rCarr recommended "a
"shotgun" type with
a cardioid pickup and a 3.5mm "mini jack" connector"

???

Thanks!
Eliezer

It sounds like what you need is Minidisc. A Minidisc recorder uses
small discs to record CD quality audio*. The recorder itself is very
compact and easy to use and you will be able to achieve high quality
results. Minidiscs typically store up to 80 minutes of audio, and many
new players have "long play" modes which substantially increase this
time.

To get the best possible quality my advice would be to set a
microphone as close to the speaker as possible, preferably on a
lecturn if they are using one. Failing that, if the lecture is being
amplified try to set the microphone close to a loudspeaker.

AGC stands for "Automatic Gain Control" and it is probably a good idea
to use it. What this means is that the recorder will constantly
monitor the loudness of the sound that it is recording and adjust the
recording volume accordingly.

You don't specify where you are so it's difficult to give you a good
idea about price but with a little shopping around you should be able
to find a very reasonably priced model.

The only downside with using Minidisc is that you will still need to
connect a cable to transfer the recordings to your computer.

*Well, nearly! The Minidisc format uses a very slight compression to
be able to store so much audio on a disc so small, but it's so slight
as to be unnoticeable.

I and my users have been very happy with the Olympus DS-330, which is
a digital voice recorder. It has been nice to use with pedals
(http://www.startstop.com/home.asp) for transcription.  The DS 330 has
conf/dict (omni/uni directional) settings, and the result is rather
clear. It has a USB connection to transfer the digital directly to
your PC. However, from your question it appears you've already
encountered that to be not the case. I'm sorry you've encountered that
because I've had very good kudos from this device and have been
personally amazed by the voice quality.

The IRiver IHP is a hard drive based mp3 players series.  There are
versions in 20gigs, and 40gigs.  I bought my 20gig version for about
$350.

The size of the IHP-120 (20gig version) is about the size of Apple IPOD 3g.

However, the IRiver IHP-120 has some nice advantages over the IPOD, in
that it records (via internal or external mic) directly to a digital
format like .wav (uncompressed) or mp3 (compressed to the bitrate you
set).  With this size IRiver, you could record thousands of hours
worth of lectures.  The files are easy to transfer over to your
computer using a USB cable.

Also, the IRiver IHP-120 includes an AGC on its recording path.  AGC
stands for "Automatic Gain Control" which basically dynamically adjust
the
'Record IN' volume as the sound is captured.  So the quiet passages
are louder, and the louder passages are quieter and dont distort.

If you want better quality, i would suggest getting a good directional
microphone to plug into the I-River when you record.  This will
improve the quality somewhat.

Hi Eliezer. I'm afraid that I don't have any specific recommendations
for mics, except that you should probably go for a "shotgun" type with
a cardioid pickup and a 3.5mm "mini jack" connector. I know that won't
mean a lot to you! I've always liked Sennheiser mics, (I use an old
but trusty MKE300 myself), but I'm a little out of touch with their
current range, sorry.

Yes Minidiscs are re-recordable. And yes you will have to use a USB
connection to get the audio onto your computer, although not all
Minidisc recorders have this option, in which case you would need to
use either an analog line-out, or, if that's not an option, the good
old headphone socket!

Thanks for the query, Eliezer! "I and my users" refers to the fact
that I am the Director of Information Technology at my job, so it is
up to me to specify, recommend, and purchase technology equipment for
the needs of my fellow employees.

The DS-330 uses a format called dss to store voice. With its included
sync program, it has the ability to detect the device in the included
cradle, automatically download (optionally delete from device) all
information, and also optionally convert to .wav as it downloads.

DSS is very good compression for voice, as I've encountered it,
because the .wav files can get *very* big. The capacity of the DS-330
is about 2.5 hours normal and over 5 hours with the extended record
function (extended record has a *very* slightly noticeable more bass
and less treble than standard, though not enough at all to call it
'distortion'). I believe it has, but have not used, Automatic Gain
Control, as well as Voice-activated recording. The size of this device
is about 3/4 the size of a micro tape recorder. I've noticed that the
AAA batteries may last about 8-9 hours. The cradle tends to drain the
batteries the most on transfer, as I observe.

Though small, the device has ports for optional headphones and/or microphone.

I'm afraid I've not taken the .dss file and made an audio CD of the
respective .wav file. All I can suppose is that I shouldn't expect to
have any loss of clarity upon the transfer of the .wav to CD.

reblazer-ga,

  One important thing that was missing from the above discussion is
that SONY recently launched a brand new media; the Hi-MD disc.

  The Hi-MD disc is, in many ways, superior to the MiniDisc. It can
store up to 1 GB of data, which translates into up to 45 hours of
audio. It uses a FAT file system so you can use it to store data as
well as audio (it appears as a drive letter in Windows.) The
corresponding Hi-MD devices are backwards compatible such that older
MiniDiscs can also be used.

  The following link can give you a complete solution of a SONY Hi-MD
recorder with AM/FM tuner and a free microphone, all for $249. This is
the best deal I have seen so far. I have personally used Hi-MD devices
for digital voice recordings. The sound quality is excellent and much
better than any digital voice recorder I have seen.

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category.cgi?item=SONY-MZ-NHF800

Hope this helps!

reblazer-ga,

  Most microphones have a cardioid pickup pattern (also known as
"unidirectional" or "heart-shaped" pickup pattern.) A unidirectional
microphone is most sensitive at the part of the microphone that you
speak into, and least sensitive at the side opposite the part into
which you speak.

  The advantage to using a unidirectional microphone is that it better
isolates sounds of interest. You can point the microphone in a
direction and pick up clear sounds from any sound source in that
direction. This significantly reduces the amount of background noise.
The disadvantage is that it will typically only give you a full sound
from a close proximity to the sound source. Maybe in your case this is
not a big issue assuming you can place the microphone reasonably close
to the lecturer.

  A "shotgun" microphone typically refers to a long barreled
microphone with a narrow acceptance angle. This may be a good option,
but an even better option may be to use a stereo unidirectional
microphone (similar to that included with the Hi-MD device offer) as
the two unidirectional pickup patterns of the two microphones in the
stereo microphone allow for picking up sounds even if the lecturer
moves around.

Hope this helps!