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Subject:
Hydrogen Peroxide reactants
Category: Science > Chemistry Asked by: adamnation-ga List Price: $25.00 |
Posted:
22 Jun 2004 20:36 PDT
Expires: 22 Jul 2004 20:36 PDT Question ID: 364861 |
My wife and I bought a house. We beleive the previous owners' cats urinated in the basement, and now our cats our doing the same. My wife read that hydrogen peroxide can eliminate old cat urine stains/smell. To her, an indication of success was the foaming reaction it has when it comes in contact with organic material. However, she has become alarmed at the same reaction she is getting in many, but not all, locations in our basement. She is paranoid that there is a large nascent bacterial population in the basement, and that the foaming of the hydrogen peroxide, in places a cat couldn't possibly have urinated; like high shelves; is an indicator. I want to know under what conditions and with what materials, besides interaction with bacteria, hydrogen peroxide can foam. For example; wood, pollen, chemical/cleaner/solvent residue, etc. |
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Subject:
Re: Hydrogen Peroxide reactants
Answered By: digsalot-ga on 22 Jun 2004 21:55 PDT |
Hello there There are many things that cause hydrogen peroxide to react (foam). If bacteria were the main cause, then it would foam on our skin, and it doesn't. It will foam on a cut in the skin however. While many people use it as an antiseptic, it is not very good at that job. It is good for washing cuts and is better than no antiseptic at all. - - "The reason why it foams is because blood and cells contain an enzyme called catalase. Since a cut or scrape contains both blood and damaged cells, there is lots of catalase floating around...When the catalase comes in contact with hydrogen peroxide, it turns the hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) into water (H2O) and oxygen gas (O2)." There is no catalase on uncut skin therefor no reaction, bacteria present or not - and we already know there is a lot of bacteria on even the cleanest skin. No peroxide reaction just from the presence of bacteria. So the statement - - "She is paranoid that there is a large nascent bacterial population in the basement, and that the foaming of the hydrogen peroxide, in places a cat couldn't possibly have urinated; like high shelves; is an indicator." - - such an indicator is in fact not correct. Hydrogen peroxide whether foaming or not is not an indicator of the presence or absence of bacteria. It is only an indicator as to whether reactants of some kind are present. Another of these reactants which may cause her peroxide to foam is detergent. If the shelves have been washed in the past, then residual detergent could cause the foaming reaction. In fact the reaction of hydrogen peroxide and detergent is the basis for many school science projects. As in this 'kids' page of interesting things to do with science: http://www.coolscience.org/CoolScience/KidScientists/h2o2.htm - add food coloring and you will have colored foam. This reaction with residual detergents could explain why some parts of the basement show reactions and others don't. As stated at the beginning, hydrogen peroxide reacts with many things. It oxidizes hydrogen sulfide, mercaptans, amines and aldehydes. - Destroys residual chlorine and reduced sulfur compounds thiosulfates, sulfites, and sulfides) Oxidizes cyanides, NOx/SOx, nitrites, hydrazine, carbonyl sulfide, and other reduced sulfur compounds mentioned above. Organic oxidation - Hydrolyzes formaldehyde, carbon disulfide, carbohydrates, organophosphorus and nitrogen compounds, and various water-soluble polymers; and (with catalysis) destroys phenols, BTEX pesticides, solvents, plasticizers, chelants, and virtually any other organic requiring treatment. Oxidizes ferrous iron, manganese, arsenic, and selenium. List of reactive substances found above is gathered from Introduction to Hydrogen Peroxide - Application Overview http://www.h2o2.com/intro/overview.html If fact, hydrogen peroxide reacts with so many things that a simple layer of dust on the shelf may contain one or more reactive substances thus causing the foam. The one thing it does not react with in a manner which would be visible, is bacteria though that does not mean that bacteria are not present along with the material the peroxide does react with. Since you are dealing with a house instead of a chemical lab, my first bet would be a reaction to residual detergent from previous efforts at cleaning. It takes very little detergent to set off the foam. And as for the cat urinating on high shelves, perhaps indirectly. Microscopic crystals from dried urine can go a-blowin' in the wind and may settle as dust many places in sufficient quantity to cause a reaction in the most unlikely spots. I hope the last three paragraphs set your wife's mind at ease. Search - google Terms - hydrogen peroxide reactions, hydrogen peroxide uses If I may clarify anything before rating the answer, please ask. Cheers Digsalot |
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Subject:
Re: Hydrogen Peroxide reactants
From: acrh2-ga on 23 Jun 2004 09:07 PDT |
I have a PhD in chemistry and I sometimes amuse myself by looking at GA, particularly this section. Over the past few months, I've noticed a disturbing trend: answers are getting more and more incorrect, sometimes downright the opposite of reality. I would advise you to be very careful and use GA answers to science questions with some caution. Some GA researchers have no business answering chemistry questions: if you've gotten an F in high school chemistry, don't try to become a chemist in 20 min. This particular answer is a good example. H2O2 will not react with soap or most detergents. Decomposition of H2O2 (especially very dilute solutions that are available to public) would reqire a very potent catalyst, such as a transition metal ion. Granted, microbes alone would probably not decompose H2O2 fast enough to see it. A more likely explanation is that the shelves have been treated with a metal salt, stained perhaps. I would throw away such shelves, you don't know what's in them; besides, staining materials w/ metal salts is 19th century technology. In general, if H2O2 foamed, I would be concerned. |
Subject:
Re: Hydrogen Peroxide reactants
From: digsalot-ga on 24 Jun 2004 14:00 PDT |
Thanks acrh2. Anything that can make an answer clearer is welcome. However, getting a reaction from hydrogen peroxide (3% in store solution) and detergent is an old and established elementary school science demonstration. See the link I posted. Cheers Digs |
Subject:
Re: Hydrogen Peroxide reactants
From: digsalot-ga on 24 Jun 2004 14:19 PDT |
Back to the link I posted. It seems yeast is needed in the equation. Perhaps you are right. Archaeologists should not answer chemistry questions. But between us we may have things covered. Thanks again for the input. By the way, I did get A's in highschool chemistry. Trying to remember 40+ years ago. digs |
Subject:
Re: Hydrogen Peroxide reactants
From: acrh2-ga on 24 Jun 2004 19:45 PDT |
Perhaps, I spoke too harshly, and I'd like to appologize. Don't feel bad though, as even for a simple molecule such as H2O2, its chemistry can be extermely complicated and rich. When I mentioned this question to my supervisor, who happens to be a world class expert on H2O2 chemistry, she wouldn't give a simple answer. In my own experience, H2O2 reactivity strongly depends on its partner, for example, aqueous Fe(III) ions will decompose H2O2 very slowly, while catalase, whose active center also features a heme bound Fe(III) ion, is one of the fastest natural calasysts. I am not sure of the composition of feline blood, especially in its dried form, but it's quite possible that it might do the job. The best way would be to do an experiment, but you could also check for high Fe, Mn, Cu content, which would be necessary. It is also possible that some detergents might contain high transition metal ion concetrations, especially iron. Wood stains is another possibility. Remember though, there's no single general answer that would cover every situatuion. |
Subject:
Re: Hydrogen Peroxide reactants
From: acrh2-ga on 24 Jun 2004 19:50 PDT |
And one more thing that I just saw. "Foaming reaction" maybe be a very poor indication that things are getting desinfected. Foam production in itself is just an indication of H2O2 decomposition, 2 H2O2 -> 2H2O + O2, which has nothing to do w/ desinfecting things, because the active oxygen in H2O2, used for oxidizing/desinfecting, ends up as molecular oxygen O2 without doing its job. |
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