Google Answers Logo
View Question
Q: Site dropped from Google, need guidance ( Answered,   2 Comments )
Subject: Site dropped from Google, need guidance
Category: Computers > Internet
Asked by: kristibweb-ga
List Price: $20.00
Posted: 25 Jun 2004 14:53 PDT
Expires: 25 Jul 2004 14:53 PDT
Question ID: 366423

My website is listed in both Yahoo and DMOZ directory.

One problem I found that the cache of my website is ...
This is G o o g l e's cache of
not  is this a problem?

I lost my backward (from almost 2,000 to 1) links and PR drop (7 to 2).

I have no idea that I linked to
"bad neighborhoods", mostly Reciprocal Link.

Please advise.
Subject: Re: Site dropped from Google, need guidance
Answered By: serenata-ga on 26 Jun 2004 02:15 PDT
Hello Kristi ~

The good news is that your site hasn't been dropped from Google's
index ... try a search on your domain,,
and you'll get the following results:

   "Picture Frames R Us - Wood, Glass, and Metal Frames
    Picture Frames R Us. Picture Frames | Visit Picture- for the great deals on Picture Frames,
    Photo Frames, gift ideas. Picture Frames R Us. ...

    Google can show you the following information for this URL:

    * Show Google's cache of
    * Find web pages that are similar to
    * Find web pages that link to
    * Find web pages that contain the term

[Search Link]
   - ://

You are also listed in Google's Directory under "Shopping >
Photography > Albums and Frames"

About Those Links

But you are right - your site is not returned in the first several
hundred results if I search for the term "picture frames".

In the Google results above ... clicking on "Find web pages that link
to", there is only one link, the link to
your site from Smart Buy Sell.

Clicking on "Find web pages that contain the term
""", there are about 300 (one data center
returned "about 300", another search - which obviously reached a
different data center - returned "about 257") returns.

The first several pages among those "contain the term" links are
exactly what you indicated - that is, reciprocal links or links from
directories, or just pages of links.

While we are not privy to Google's algorithms and do not have any
insider information, it is patently clear that at one time, such links
were weighted more heavily than they are now - as the forums are full
of people commenting that all their 'links' have disappeared.

The reason for this is obvious - people learned that links would boost
their PageRank and went crazy collecting all the reciprocal links,
including links from link farms and other unrelated sites in an effort
to boost that PageRank. It worked for a while, too. And quite simply -
it no longer works.

Google no longer rewards such practices - and while "penalize" might
be a harsh words, sites which may have ranked well in search engine
results pages (SERPs) can no longer be found.

While it is no consolation, you are not alone. There are a number of
discussion threads on Webmaster World, such as:

   * Sites linking in to my site

   * What causes a backlink to no[t] show up?
     On Google.

   * Links problem... Google... Again!

and from Jill Whalen's High Rankings forum:

   * "g" And Link.html And Links.html

   * Can Submitting To 1500 Engines Work?, will it build
     incoming links?

   * Cool New Link Exchange Site, A new site for finding
     link partners

Since about mid-May, more and more website owners are discovering that
hundreds or thousands of links - especially if they are only links for
the sake of links - no longer help a site rank well for their key
words or phrases in answer to a searcher's query. This is apparently
what has happened with your site, too.

What Does Google Want?

It might help to understand that Google's responsibility is to the
searcher, and not the webmaster or website owner. And Google's mission
is to return the most *relevant* sites in answer to a query. To
determine what is "most relevant" includes relevant content, good HTML
(to make it easy for the Googlebot to crawl the site), and ***
RELEVANT *** links to a site.

It might seem a bit "hokey", but I recommend reviewing "Google Today",
where this is explained,

     "Though acknowledged as the world's leading search
      technology company, Google's goal is to provide a
      much higher level of service to all those who seek
      information, whether they're at a desk in Boston,
      driving through Bonn, or strolling in Bangkok."
   - ://

Obviously, a link from, say, a photographer's site recommending a
frame from your site, or from a decorator's site recommending
purchasing frames from your site are more *RELEVANT* and would weigh
more in your favor than a link from any old page full of links - even
if they are divided into "categories".

Those are the types of links you should be seeking for your site, and
not reciprocal links, as Google specifically warns agains that type of
behavior in its "Reasons You Might Not Be Listed",

     "... certain actions such as ... setting up pages/links
      with the sole purpose of fooling search engines may
      result in permanent removal from our index."
   - ://

and in its "Quality Guidelines - Basic Principles",

     "Don't participate in link schemes designed to
      increase your site's ranking or PageRank. In
      particular, avoid links to web spammers or "bad
      neighborhoods" on the web as your own ranking
      may be affected adversely by those links."
   - ://

Building Links

There is a lot of good information on building the right type of links
to your site.

I recommend starting with a series of articles on Jill Whalen's High which explains both why they are important and how to set
about developing the right kind of relationships to obtain those

You'll notice besides relevant sites, there are recommendations for
niche directories (which *are* recognized as useful information, as
opposed to a website's page of links).

Nothing happens overnight, but adding those links to your site will be
of benefit to you.

About that PageRank Number

You also mentioned your PageRank had dropped from 7 to 2. Don't
mistake that number for how you may rank in search queries. It does
not necessarily follow that a page with a high PageRank will rank well
in SERPs.

     "The main thing that I came away with is that
      PageRank is not the be-all and end-all to high
      rankings in Google (which is what I already
      suspected when looking at many of the Google
      results pages).  PageRank is just one factor of
      many that needs to be looked at when optimizing
      a site for the search engines."

You'd do better adding relevant content and worry less about PageRank
- because ultimately content does matter.

Relevant Content

Google recommends making your page for visitors, not search engines.
And it is generally accepted that Google will penalize a page for
spamming the search terms.

Google recommends using a text viewer to get a good idea of what the
Googlebot "sees" when it crawls your pages. You can get an idea of
this by downloading Lynx (a text browser) or you can use the Lynx
Viewer, here:

When viewed that way, you can see there isn't much about picture
frames within the text, but much more seemingly disjointed terms:

     "Picture Frames R Us 

      Picture Frames | Visit
      for the great deals on Picture Frames, Photo
      Frames, gift ideas.

                            Picture Frames R Us

   Picture Frames - Picture Frames R Us for great sales on
   quality picture frames, photo frames and many gift ideas
   for any occasions From the classic elegance of our old
   world to Victorian frames, to the sleek new look of our
   modern mirrored frames. has some
   thing for everyone! To display and preserved your
   cherished photos, documents memorabilia and small works
   of art with over 500 style, color and size combinations
   you are sure to find something to showcase your personnel

                          Frames By Size Frames By Color

     2" x 3" Pictures 
     Antique Walnut Frames
     2.5" x 3.5" Pictures
     Black Frames
     3.5" x 3.5" Pictures
     Blue Frames
     3.5" x 5" Pictures 
     Cairo Walnut Frames
     3" x 3" Pictures ..."

     [Truncated for brevity]

In other words, you offer frames, but there's not a lot of relevent
content there for the Googlebot to grab hold of.

You can also try Delorie's Search Engine Simulator to get an idea of
what the search engines "see". It's located here,

Spamming - Key Word Density

Since there is so little content and more internal links to the type
of frames you offer, I ran a key word density check on your front
page, and the term frames was used 35 times on the page (which doesn't
include the number of times it is used in your metatags).

The use of that term that many times will probably be seen as
'spamming' that search term - something else Google may penalize you

My suggestion is to discuss the multiple types of frames and then
break the types under one header using the word 'frames' and not
constantly repeat the word.

You can run your pages through the Key Word Density checker here,

Title Tags

I noticed you utilize the title tags to describe the contents of the
inner pages on your site, but they all start with Picture Frames R Us,
instead of the type of frame first.

It's pretty well established on every page what the site is ... why
not add to the chances of getting these pages indexed and place well,
too for those terms by changing the order of the page title.

Instead of:
    Picture Frames R Us - Dark Walnut Frames

    Dark Walnut Frames - Picture Frames R Us

Relevant Content - Again

Since I have already referred to your Dark Walnut Frames page - this
is an excellent example to point out that you are missing an excellent
chance to add relevant content.

What you have is dimensions and a small graphic (click to enlarge) -
what you are missing is describing the beauty of the dark walnut wood,
how it would lend itself to a certain occasion or enhance a certain
decor. The significance of dark walnut, etc., and voila! some content
for the search engine crawlers to add to the index, and you might be
surprised to see that you're ranking for 'dark walnut frames'

Remember, some people actually DO browse with graphics turned off or
because of accessibility reasons, need to use special browsers. Give
them something to 'picture' in their mind's eye. It can only help to
add this type of relevant content.

It will also come in handy when link building with relevant content as well.

and you don't have to keep using the words "Picture Frames", "Photo
Frames", "Wood Picture Frames" ... that is just overkill, and you
don't want to be seen as spamming.

Reciprocal Links

Just as links TO your site should be relevant, so should links from
your site. Linking to be linking is seen as a link farm or linking

I would suggest shutting down your reciprocal links page and carefully
consider which links may be useful and helpful to your visitor.
Remember, Google says to design your page for your visitor, not for
search engines.

Important Google Links For Your Reference

For your information and usage, I am including important links from
Google's site. This information will help you understand Google's
goals and responsibility to the web searcher (and not the webmaster or
site owner).

It is incumbent upon you, the webmaster or the website owner, to
ensure your site meets these basics if you want your site listed.
Webmasters who do follow the guidelines and avoid Google's "Thou shalt
nots" usually have no problem getting listed and showing up under the
search terms they desire.

   * Google Today (absolutely the best information you
     can read about the "how and why" of Google's results
     - ://

   * How Do I Get My Site Listed on Google?
     - ://

   * My Web Pages Are Not Currently Listed (a good 'primer'
     on how and why Google works so well)
     - ://

   * PageRank Information (covers both Google's PageRank and
     - ://

   * Webmaster Guidelines (contains both the dos and don'ts)
     - ://

   * Google Facts & Fiction (can  you buy your way to a
     high ranking in Google?)
     - ://

   * Search Engine Optimizers (some good advice on what to look
     for if you're going to hire a Search Engine Optimizer)
     - ://

   * Frequently Asked Questions (pretty much what it says, but
     definitely worth wading through)
     - ://

   * Remove Content from Google's Index (just in case you feel
     a burning need to start all over again)
     - ://

Other Sources of Information

There is also good information from many of the top search engine
optimization experts, such as

   * Jill Whalen, High Rankings

   * Jill's High Rankings forum is an excellent source of
     information, too

   * Detlev Johnson, Search Engine Guide

   * Danny Sullivan, Search Engine Watch

   * Shari Thurow, Web Pro News (and quoted all over the Internet)

all of the above have columns or newsletters to which you can
subscribe and keep abreast of the best way to use good content for
better positioning in search engine results.

In addition, Webmaster World - - has
discussion boards on most of the search engines. While some of the
discussions are anecdotal and/or questions for information, there is
usually enough discussion to keep abreast of what seems to be

There is an entire section devoted to Google at:

It never hurts to keep track of the discussions; but remember, trying
to optimize for search engines only is like trying to hit a moving
target. You'll notice among the more experienced contributors to the
discussions - plus the SEO experts listed above - that there really is
no substitute for content, **RELEVANT** links and good HTML.

You have a valuable site with many frames from which to choose. With
some changes, you can and should rank well enough to enjoy traffic
driven by the search engines to your site. And remember, while it
won't happen overnight - it does happen if you optimize the right way
for search engine listings.

Search terms ~

Besides the specific domain search as listed above, I relied on
reliable resources I use in my daily business as a designer and SEO

I hope this helps,

Google Answers Researcher
Subject: Re: Site dropped from Google, need guidance
From: aceresearcher-ga on 26 Jun 2004 04:16 PDT
Greetings, Kristi!

The reason this has happened to your is
because the Googlebot has recognized that it is identical to your site, and that is the site it has chosen as
your primary site.

A Google search for that site:
Picture Frames
e Picture Frames. Home of Picture Frames. Ready Made Picture Frames?
- have been wholesalers and suppliers of quality ... 

Google can show you the following information for this URL:

Show Google's cache of 
Find web pages that are similar to 
Find web pages that link to           <==
Find web pages that contain the term ""

Clicking on "Find web pages that link to" shows the backward links for
that site (Results 1 - 10 of about 888):

Apparently Google recently tweaked and greatly improved the part of
their algorithm that recognizes duplicate sites, because there have
been several Questions similar to yours posted lately.

From the Google Information for Webmasters - Webmaster Guidelines:
"... Don't create multiple pages, subdomains, or domains with
substantially duplicate content..."

What you need to do is place a simple redirect on that points to
Then write to the webmasters of the sites which link to, asking them to change the link to

(Results 1 - 10 of about 351)

Any sites which get changed in this way will then be used in
calculation of the Page Rank for

Best wishes,

Subject: Re: Site dropped from Google, need guidance
From: seo_guy-ga on 27 Jun 2004 13:03 PDT

The main question which still remains unanswered is why doesn't shows more than 1 link. It is
still having many relevant links. Infact links from related Category
of DMOZ and Yahoo are one which google can never neglect. Why those
links are not shown needs to be checked.

With Regards

Important Disclaimer: Answers and comments provided on Google Answers are general information, and are not intended to substitute for informed professional medical, psychiatric, psychological, tax, legal, investment, accounting, or other professional advice. Google does not endorse, and expressly disclaims liability for any product, manufacturer, distributor, service or service provider mentioned or any opinion expressed in answers or comments. Please read carefully the Google Answers Terms of Service.

If you feel that you have found inappropriate content, please let us know by emailing us at with the question ID listed above. Thank you.
Search Google Answers for
Google Answers  

Google Home - Answers FAQ - Terms of Service - Privacy Policy