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Q: Circuit board design ( No Answer,   8 Comments )
Question  
Subject: Circuit board design
Category: Science > Technology
Asked by: maximillion-ga
List Price: $20.00
Posted: 04 Jul 2004 22:42 PDT
Expires: 17 Aug 2004 15:46 PDT
Question ID: 369767
I have a requirement for a timer circuit that can be mass-produced
cheaply with the following functionality:

? Adjustable ?off? period from approximately 15 minutes to approximately 6 hours
? Adjustable ?on? period from approximately 30 seconds to 5 minutes
? The adjustments ideally would be via a potentiometer
? Input voltage min 6V, max 12V DC

The circuit should be capable of driving a relay that will switch
power to a solenoid off and on.  I purchased a kit based on the 555
chip that promised adjustable times via potentiometers.  I built the
kit, and it does
work but the times are too short ? only a few seconds off and on, with
a few seconds in between.  The circuit diagram that I used can be
found at http://bardos.com.au/electronics/circuit%20board.jpg

My question is whether the components of this circuit-board can be
substituted to give me the adjustable off and on times that I am
seeking?  I can build these simple circuit-boards but do not have the
theoretical background to perform the calculations on resistance etc.
Answer  
There is no answer at this time.

Comments  
Subject: Re: Circuit board design
From: crythias-ga on 05 Jul 2004 01:03 PDT
 
403 Access forbidden on your circuit diagram, btw...

http://www.uoguelph.ca/~antoon/gadgets/555/555.html has a nice
tutorial, including talking about the Monostable mode... nearly
halfway down the page...
In the VERY simple 9a diagram, it indicates that T = 1.1 x R x C (in
seconds) Your methods and results may vary.
Subject: Re: Circuit board design
From: bloodred-ga on 05 Jul 2004 22:52 PDT
 
Try using 1 MOhm or 2 MOhm potentiometers instead of the 200 kOhm
ones. This will give you a wider range of values to adjust the speed
of the 555 timer.
Subject: Re: Circuit board design
From: veepee-ga on 06 Jul 2004 19:44 PDT
 
There would be an accurate, but costly solution which would involve a
counting circuitry, rotary switches, and a piezoelectrical crystal,
but I don't think it'd be adapted to your needs .

I don't seem to remember how to calculate an astable 555 with two
potentiometers like in your case .

The way I'd do it is with 2 LM555s or a LM556 chip (which is basically
two 555s, but is less costly than two 555s) . One 555 would be the
astable, and you could adjust that one with a potentiometer for the
OFF time . After the OFF time, it would give a really short pulse to
trigger the other 555 which would be driven in monostable mode . This
one would also have a potentiometer to control its length, and this
would be the one controlling the relay .


If someone knows how to get the right result with only one 555, please
post the calculations ; that diagram is confusing me for some reason .
Subject: Re: Circuit board design
From: maximillion-ga on 06 Jul 2004 20:25 PDT
 
Many thanks for comments so far - the issue with using multiple
processors is one of per-unit cost.  I've purchased a couple of one
and two Ohm pots and will post the impact on times in the next day or
so. If it fails, I'll try the twin processor idea.
Subject: Re: Circuit board design
From: maximillion-ga on 06 Jul 2004 20:42 PDT
 
According to the tutorial posted in the first comment, if T (seconds)
= R x C then using a 2 MOhm pot would require a capacitor of 11,000
micro-farads to give a range of 900 to 22000 seconds (~ 15 minutes to
6 hours). Is that correct, and is a capacitor with that rating
actually available?
Subject: Re: Circuit board design
From: veepee-ga on 06 Jul 2004 21:32 PDT
 
Seems correct .

However, you'd have to settle with normalized values for your
components, multiples of 1,0 or 1,5 ; that is, 10,000 micro-F
capacitor instead of 11,000 .

A 10,000 micro-F capacitor is a pretty big one, though . I'd suggest
going with two 5,000uF [micro-farads] . If you want accuracy, you can
add a 1,000uF . Better accuracy, but adds to the bill as well .

Keep us updated on how it goes . Are you using LEDs to test the functioning ?

By the way, if you do get your hands on big capacitors, be careful of
polarities (+,-) . These little buggers tend to jump to your face if
you plug them wrong .
Subject: Re: Circuit board design
From: neilzero-ga on 07 Jul 2004 12:05 PDT
 
In theory you can buy 100,000,000 ohm potentiometers = 100 meg ohms,
which will extend the on and off time some, perhaps much, using
capacitors of a few thousand MFD. 22 meg ohm fixed resistors are
readily available, 1/10 th watt or more. In series with the
potentiometers the timing range will be tiny, but it will make a good
test for repeatability. The very high resistance may make the
repeatability poor, but it is worth a try, if you can find the very
high resistance potentiometers at a reasonable cost. A 2 watt rating
for the potentiometer and a 12 volt rating for the capacitor should be
enough. Applying 12 volts dc to your capacitors for a day or two may
reduce the leakage of the capacitors. The leakage becomes important
with very high resistance.  Neil
Subject: Re: Circuit board design
From: maximillion-ga on 23 Jul 2004 17:41 PDT
 
Got it working with all the assistance!  Final answer was a 33uf Cap
and 4mOhm pot for the 'on' time, which gave me 1sec to 1 min.  For the
'wait' time, two 2200uf Caps in parallel with 4mOhm pot which gave 2
min to 3 hours. Used a 2.7k resistor over the 12v with a dual color
LED - green for power, red for 'on'.  Many thanks!

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