Why do I (female) retain water and gain weight when I eat US made
wheat or rhye bread while I do not have this peoblem when I eat bread
in Europe (Germany or Turkey for example) and even loose some retained
water and weight? This reflects many years of experience. I have heard
that the grain storage method in US might be a reason. Is there bread
that would not cause my problem?

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Request for Question Clarification by chromedome-ga on 07 Jul 2004 21:46 PDT

There are a great many possibilities, Carlo...

The primary difference between European breads and American breads
lies in the flour: European wheats are different, as is the milling
process (I stress wheats because rye bread generally also includes
wheat flour, for lightness and a more pleasant texture).  Also, while
American bread is generally "enriched" (ie, contains significant
quantities of fats and dairy), much of Europe prefers "lean" breads
(the classic baguette, for example, must contain only flour, water,
salt and yeast).

Before we get into all of that, though, I have a question for you. 
Have you noticed the same effect with artisanal and/or organic breads
in America?  A quality organic artisanal bread in the US would not
contain the various additives and preservatives that Yadid-ga alludes
to.  If you find that organic American bread *does not* have the same
effect, we can draw conclusions from that.  If, on the other hand, it
*does* have the same effect, there are other factors at play which we
may look into.


-Chromedome

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Clarification of Question by carlo35-ga on 01 Aug 2004 20:11 PDT

Dear cromedome,
I finally found out how to respond to your clarification request. We
have tried your idea using organic bread for about 2 weeks. It does
not seem to help. Other ideas? My question expires on 8/5/04.
Thank you.
Carlo

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Request for Question Clarification by chromedome-ga on 02 Aug 2004 09:42 PDT

Hi, Carlo!  I thought you'd forgotten us, or perhaps found a
persuasive answer elsewhere.

Please don't be concerned if we haven't got this resolved before the
5th.  Although your question will expire then, you will only have lost
the fifty-cent listing fee, and you will be able to re-post your
question.

As for your question itself, there may not be any one clear
demonstrable answer.  I will probably need to ask you for additional
information as I research this, in order to narrow down a few probable
causes.  As I work two jobs besides my sporadic visits to Google
Answers (I'm a cook and baker) it may take me a little while to get
this hammered out.  I do have good resources at my disposal, though.

As a starting point, could I ask:

1) Which countries (besides Germany and Turkey) you visit or have
visited?  Have you observed this effect in all of them?

2) Is two weeks of organic bread long enough to note a difference?  Is
that how long it takes in Europe?

3) Assuming that the answer to the above is yes, ask your baker for
bread made with kamut or spelt, rather than wheat.  Kamut and spelt
are ancestral forms of wheat which do not trigger most wheat
allergies.  They do still contain enough gluten to make perfectly
acceptable bread.

I bring this up despite your mention of rye bread, because rye bread
is ordinarily made with a significant quantity of wheat flour in order
to give a lighter, softer, product.

Kamut, by the way, with its long, chewy grains, is an interesting
alternative to rice for pilafs and such.  But I digress.

4) Do you notice this effect throughout the US, or are you simply
comparing "home" and Europe?  If you do not travel within the US, or
do not notice this problem in other regions, what region do you live
in?

The answers to these questions will give me a starting point to work
from.  I expect that I should be able to arrive at a few reasonable
hypotheses within the next week or two (depends on others responding
to my e-mails...always an uncertain thing).

Thanks for getting back to me!

-Chromedome

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Clarification of Question by carlo35-ga on 02 Aug 2004 23:36 PDT

Hi, Chromedome!
Thank you for your prompt response. I am impressed.
For your information and to clarify: I have asked my qestion on behalf
of my wife. Here are answers to your questions:
1) She has not visited other countries long enough to know a difference.
2) We think so. Two weeks were usually enough to experience positive
changes in both countries.
3) We are going to try both grains. They are available here.
4) Yes. A three weeks stay in Florida, for example, did not result in
any changes. We live in Los Angeles.
Thanks again. 
Carlo

Your reaction shows a sensitivity, or allergy, to the bread you choose
in the US.It could be from the fact that bread in the States is very
processed (white), which turns it into something foreign to the body;
or it could be a reaction to the many other chemical substances added
to the bread, and which are usually listed on the wrapping.
Your options are : finding a type of bread with as few additives as
possible, and as little processed as possible; or eating organic
bread, which uses hardly any additives and is more nutritious and
natural.
Your reaction could also be to the type of wheat used in the
bread.Sometimes it's the amount of gluten in the wheat, in that case
you would be advised to look for a type of wheat with low or zero
gluten levels.
Spelt wheat is a type of wheat that is more ancient and is now being
used more and more because it induces less reactions.Look for spelt
wheat bread in health food stores.Hope this helps.

I would guess fluoride is the problem.  Bread, which is itself 30 to
40 percent water, is usually made with fluoridated water in the U.S.,
but in most of Europe it isn't.  Fluoride is known to cause IBS.