On page 265 of the paperback edition of JULIAN, there are two quotes.n The 
first

"To find the father and maker of all is hard," as Socrates said, "And
having found him it is impossible to utter him." Where did Socrates
say that?


The second quote from Aeschylus: "men search out God and searching find him."
Where did Aeschylus write that?

Dear mevlana,

1.
In fact, this is not really a quotation by Socrates. It derives from
the dialogue "Timaeus", written by Socrates' follower Plato. And in
that fictitious dialogue between Socrates, Critias, Hermocrates and
Timaeus, it is not Socrates but Timaeus who actually says "ut the
father and maker of all this universe is past finding out; and even if
we found him, to tell of him to all men would be impossible." However,
Socrates agrees to Timaeus' reasoning with the words "Excellent,
Timaeus", so we can assume that - in this dialogue - Socrates indeed
shares the views expressed by Timaeus, including the ideas on "the
father and maker of all".
Since almost everything we know about Socrates' ideas derives from
Plato's writings, it is possible that this dialogue really reflects
Socrates' general views on the subject, even if he did never use the
precise words phrased by Plato here.

2.
My research has not revealed any quotation by Aeschylus that actually
even vaguely resembles those words. Actually, it seems that Gore
Vidal's work of fiction is the only source for this quotation (one
single attribution to Aeschylus' "Agamemnon" proved to be false). So I
have reason ta assume that the quotation has been made up by the
author Vidal, maybe based upon Aeschylus' general views. In that
context, it could count as a quotation from a "lost" work.



Sources:

The Internet Classics Archive: Timaeus by Plato
http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/timaeus.html

Greek Philosophy - Socrates, by Richard Hooker
http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~dee/GREECE/SOCRATES.HTM

Feivald.org: The Second Apology Of Justin For The Christians - Chapter X
http://www.freivald.org/~jake/justin-Martyr/secondApology/justin-martyr_second-apology_chapterX.html

Active Mind: Atlantis - Timaeus and Critias
http://www.activemind.com/Mysterious/Topics/Atlantis/timaeus_and_critias.html

Deepfield.com: FLAVIUS CLAUDIUS JULIANUS, by Arthur E. Noot
http://deepfield.com/anoot/essay/FLAVIUS%20CLAUDIUS%20JULIANUS.htm


Search terms used:
"father and maker of all" socrates
://www.google.de/search?q=%22father+and+maker+of+all%22+socrates&hl=de&lr=&ie=UTF-8&newwindow=1&start=0&sa=N
plato socrates
://www.google.de/search?q=plato+socrates&ie=UTF-8&hl=de&btnG=Google-Suche&meta=
plato socrates "father and maker"
://www.google.de/search?q=plato+socrates+%22father+and+maker%22&hl=de&lr=&ie=UTF-8&newwindow=1&start=10&sa=N
"father and maker" socrates
://www.google.de/search?q=%22father+and+maker%22+socrates&hl=de&lr=&ie=UTF-8&newwindow=1&start=0&sa=N
"father and maker" socrates
http://groups.google.de/groups?hl=de&lr=&ie=UTF-8&newwindow=1&q=%22father+and+maker%22+socrates&btnG=Suche



Very best regards,
Scriptor

---

Clarification of Answer by scriptor-ga on 19 Jul 2004 05:31 PDT

Dear mevlana,

I have spent several hours on additional research and I found out
something interesting. Still there is no whatsoever indication that
the phrase "Men search out God and searching find him" has ever been
written by Greek dramtist Aeschylus; but I have found a quotation that
is surprisingly similar:

"O Lord our God, grant us grace to desire Thee with our whole heart;
that, so desiring, we may seek, and seeking find Thee (...)"

Those are words from a prayer written by St. Anselm, archbishop of
Canterbury (1033-1109). The second part is almost identical to the
supposed Aeschylus quote. While it is possible that Anselm took
inspiration from a classical source for these words (after all he was
born in Italy where in the Middle Ages ancient scriptures were not as
rare as in the countries of Northern Europe), I did not find any
traceable connection to an existing ancient Greek (or Roman) text. I
therefore assume that the reference Julian makes to the Aeschylus
quote in Vidal's book is actually an interesting and swift plot device
of the author, but not an exact quotation from an actual work of
Aeschylus.


Saints of the Day: Anselm of Canterbury
http://www.saintpatrickdc.org/ss/0421.htm


Regards,
Scriptor

And the matter is raised in similar language in the King James version
of the Bible.

"JOB 11:7 -- Canst thou by searching find out God? Canst thou find out
the Almighty unto perfection?"

http://www.biblekeeper.com/King-James-Version2/job_11.html

The Greek philosophers were not too original. The Greek people of
their day were worshippers of multiple gods inherited from Babylon.
Seems odd that the philosophers, Plato etc, should be referring to a
ONE god who CREATED everything. Seems like a steal direct from the Old
Testament. Isaiah 55; 8,9 " For the thoughts of you people are not my
thoughts, nor are my ways your ways, is the utterance of Jehovah [
God`s personal name] 9. For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
so my ways are higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your
thoughts". Psalm 146;6.."The MAKER of heaven and earth, of the sea and
of all that is in them...And did this ONE god create people...Proverbs
22;2.."The rich one and the one of little means have met each other.
The MAKER of them all is Jehovah". This scripture can ONLY apply to
people. And Jeremiah 33;2..."This is what Jehovah the maker of earth
has said, Jehovah the former of it to establish it firmly, Jehovah
BEING HIS NAME". The Greek philosophers had access to the early Hebrew
writings, the Old Testament, plagiarised it and added their own ideas,
and called it all their own???????????????????????????

Dear mevlana,

Please don't pay attention to the previous comment by pugwashjw-ga; he
is not a Google Answers Researcher, but only a private person who is
known for delivering religious sermons in comments.

Regards,
Scriptor
Google Answers Researcher

Just a note to add a bit to scriptor's splendid work.  

Different translations often have very different phrasings for the
same passages of original text.  Although not all translations of
Agamemmnon contain the language in the question, at least one does:


Three Greek Plays: Prometheus Bound, Agamemnon, the Trojan Women 
Book by Edith Hamilton; W.W. Norton & Co., 1937 


THE AGAMEMNON of AESCHYLUS 


CHORUS

The blow God strikes, so say men ever. 
They search out him and searching find him. 
He wills and it is done. There spoke one saying: 
God cares not when 
men tread down 
holy things inviolate 
underfoot. 
But who spoke thus 
knew not God. 
Our eyes have seen the price 
the proud must pay in full 
for daring deeds beyond man's daring. 
When dwellings overflow with riches, 
the greatest good 
is not there: 
wealth enough to keep away 
misery, 
and hearts that are wise to use it.