After two helpful answers, I got nothing last time I asked this, so
I'm trying again at a higher price.

Find a 1900 or earlier source which mentions the tradition of
?treizain? or ?arras? (either by name, by description, or both).

Background:  I am researching the tradition of giving 13 coins or
tokens during a wedding. (see my web site at:
http://users.pullman.com/fjstevens/tokens/ArrasTokens/index.htm)  This
ceremony (and the coins) are called ?treizain? by the French, and
?Arras? by the Spanish.  I am looking for sources from 1900 or earlier
which mention this tradition.  The mention can be brief, as long as it
clearly refers to a specific number of coins (not necessarily 13,
though that is the most common number) that are exchanged during the
wedding ceremony.  Sources may be non-fiction or fiction as long as
the date can be determined.  To give you an idea of what I?m looking
for, here is an example of a source I?ve found already:

?La Mare Au Diable? by George Sand (1851)
?If you will allow me to relate to you in detail a country wedding?. 
At the offertory Germain [the bridegroom] placed, according to the
custom, the treizain ? that is to say, thirteen pieces of silver ? in
the hand of his beloved.?

I have a list of other references I have found already at:
http://users.pullman.com/fjstevens/tokens/ArrasTokens/pre1900arras.htm

One new reference counts as an ?answer.?  Answer need not be ?full
text? as long as it includes enough information for me to find it, and
it is findable (citations to manuscripts in European libraries would
be interesting, but not of much use).  If you find more than one, or
find a really good reference, I?ll add a tip.  If this question is
answered, I?ll post it again in a bit, so keep an eye out for
references even if you can?t find any right now.

Note:  I have searched www.newspaperarchive.com (?treizain?, ?13
coins?, ?thirteen coins?), although there may well be some articles
there that I?ve missed.

---

Request for Question Clarification by pafalafa-ga on 26 Jul 2004 09:36 PDT

Nice to see you back again.

In perusing some old online newspaper files, I found some relevant
materials, but -- unfortunately -- the one that really hits the nail
on the head is dated 1901 [though it clearly references an
coin-exchange earlier event as well].

Let me know if any of these seem of interest, and if so, I'll post the
full details as an answer to your (latest) question.

pafalafa-ga

==========

February 14, 1901


Royal Wedding in Madrid

Another custom observed was that of giving coins to the bride by the
bridegroom.  These may be pennies of silver, or gold coins, according
to the position and wealth of the contracting parties, but they must
always number thirteen.  Those employed to-day were thirteen gold
coins, each weighing an ounce and being of the coinage bearing the
bust of Felipe, the first Spanish Bourbon monarch.  They were the same
used at the wedding of Queen Isabel II, the grandmother of the bride.


==========

April 11, 1897

Wedding Day Lore

...A silver coin in the poocket of the bride's travelling gown assures
here that she will never come to want...

==========

August 1, 1886

Old Fashions and New: 
How the Wedding Present Custom Originated


...Engagements were often consummated by the breaking of a silver coin
in two pieces.  "Oaths were sworn and prayers were offered over the
broken pieces...Often a hole was drilled in a broken piece of money
and attached to the neck.  It was allowed to hang near the heart and
was regarded as bringing luck to the wearer."

==========

---

Clarification of Question by fstokens-ga on 26 Jul 2004 11:53 PDT

That 1901 article definately refers to the custom I'm interested in. 
I have found a lot of modern references along the same line -- a brief
description of the custom with some comment about it being an old
tradition.  What I'm trying to locate are older references, so I  can
try to pin down when it started, and how prevalent it has been at
different times.

Hi,

Please find the link below: It is in French. If you could translate
into English, you can have your answer.

http://site.ifrance.com/traditions/treizain.htm
http://www.ifrance.com/poitou/treizain.htm

Best Regards
epedia

Hi again,

Please find the translated English version of the link, I gave before:
http://site.ifrance.com/traditions/treizain.htm

Best Regards
epedia

------------------------------------------------------
A document on the treizain of marriage in Rochefort 

at the XVIIe century 


Among the bridal rites the blessing of coins by the priest appears who
celebrates the marriage. In certain places, these are thirteen parts
that one thus presents at the blessing, at the same time as alliances:
the treizain. Van Gennep announces the deposit of these thirteen parts
"on the plate of the offerings", in four communes of the canton of
Châteauneuf-on-Charente (Vibrac, Saint-Amant-de-Graves,
Angeac-Charente and Saint-Simeux), in about fifteen localities of the
Poitevin Marsh and in the Scrap-metal, where the priest keeps "the
thirteenth part". It adds that, in the Vendée, according to Trébucq,
"the priest gives only three parts to the groom, who passes them to
his wife after the blessing of the ring and a cake offered by the
godfather" (1).

For Saintonge and Aunis, the Noguès abbot treats habit but to mention
his absence: "As for the down payments or parts of marriage, looked at
as the sign of the abundance, and whose offering with the wife is
according to certain authors, older than that of the ring, they are
still about unknown in all the parishes which border Poitou. Perhaps
it is necessary to allot the cause of it to the extreme poverty of
these regions before the extension of the culture of the vine "(2).
The priest of Dampierre thus seems to indicate Saintonge septentrional
of the surroundings of Boutonne.

Leproux is hardly more prolix. It announces that in Montemboeuf, about
1885, the poorest families do not hesitate to resort to the loan to
satisfy the habit. However, towards the end of the century, the use is
hardly any more observed that in the rich families and, after the war
of 1914 and the disappearance of the gold currency, it "is nothing any
more but one occasion for the fortunate families to spread out" their
means "and to show that they still have gold coins". The "folklorist
of Charentes", as called it R. Doussinet, announces the maintenance of
the habit to Chazelles in 1944 and Montbronnais in 1945. He also
mentions that, "in the area angoumousine", the treizain was placed in
the coffin of the first dead of the family, even if it were a child,
and that one never could give him the reason of this practice (3).

Randomly of an examination of texts for a history of the "Old Parish"
of Rochefort, we found trace of this habit about 1675. The "Old
Parish" is the old church of Rochefort, unused medieval building since
more than one century, which currently shelters the museum of the
Company of Geography of Rochefort. One finds with the files of Évêché,
with the Small rock, some official reports of parochial visits, of
which one, January 20, 1677, is rich in lesson on pastorale in the
parish Our-Lady of Rochefort. It comprises many depositions of
parishioners who highlight in particular certain excesses of the
priest. It is in the series of the complaints against serving that are
the following extracts.

Deposition of the prosecutor syndic of the parish : 

"... in addition to that that luy pertaining only the treiziesme part
of arts ( sic , for down payment) that the husband has coustume to
give to his épouze, it takes half sometimes of it and almost always
three or four parts... ".

Deposition of a clerk to the control of the Navy, twenty-eight years
old "or approximately" :

"... known as aussy says it depositor that at the time of the
celebration of his marriage one put treze demy louis of gold to serve
as wanders (down payment), to the accustomed manner, in the church, of
which says it cleaned retained of them two instead of only one which
luy revenoit so that it usually claims, which scandalized much the
woman of the known as depositor which is new convert with the catholic
foy and the prayer of which it was to ask for the excess of demy louis
to the known as priest, with offer luy to give the value of iceux
white silver, which it refused to do, saying that it them retenoit for
luy seroit still deû ten grounds of remainder ".

Van Gennep protested against the authors who "confused this gift of
currency with the down payments" that the girl received at the time of
engagement, these down payments constituting a kind of pledge which
was to be restored in the event of rupture of the promise of marriage.
They consisted in the past of money or gold coins, more recently in
jewels, small gifts, sometimes even clothing. Van Gennep estimated
that this assimilation "was prohibited by the moment of the gift and
its blessing, like by its very low commercial value" (4). It is
however the down payment term which is employed by the two depositors
and at the time of the ceremony of the marriage.

The point of view of the Church is expressed in the ritual one and
synodal statutes. According to a ritual of the diocese of the Small
rock gone back to 1744, according to an analysis of J. Morin (5), "the
priest required the ring and the thirteen silver coins that one
generally presented to him in a basin (flat of search), blessed the
ring and the parts... (here the husband passes the ring to the finger
of the wife), then the husband took the number of silver coins which
one had habit to take in the place (leaving the others to the priest),
put them in the right hand or the purse of its wife by adding these
words: "and of my goods I you douë" (i.e. "I equip you"). This formula
means clearly that the groom "equips" the wife "on his goods" and that
the handing-over of the parts constitutes the symbol of the
"equipment".

The "synodal statutes of the diocese of the Small rock and Saintes"
published into 1888 stipulate: "According to the use, after the
blessing of the ring, it (the officiant) can, if necessary, bless the
down payments, by the formula: Oblatos etiam, Dominates, in signum
constitutoe dotis nummos benedicere digneris, and C bene sponsa
dotetur coelestibus instrue disciplinis. Per Christum Dominum Nostrum
"(p. 257-258). It is well the same symbol of "constitution of dowry"
and it is still the down payment term which is employed.

Leproux announces that to Brigueil, in 1943, one said that the
treizain "was to pay his wife" and it adds that it was generally
regarded as a dowry for the woman or "a reserve in the event of
misfortune". We do not insist on interpretations but we note that,
towards the end of the XIXe century, the authority diocésaine takes
into account an old practice which probably did not fall yet in
disuse. However Van Gennep did not find anything for the diocese of
the Small rock and Saintes, in the publications of this century. It is
true that, generally, the habits of Aunis and Saintonge were not the
subject of systematic investigations when it was still time and it is
a pity well.

Notes 

(1) Handbook of contemporary French folklore , volume 1, volume 2, p. 459-463. 

(2) manners of formerly in Saintonge and Aunis , p. 9. 

(3) Contribution to the folklore charentais, Angoumois, Aunis,
Saintonge ; volume III, 1959, p. 174-175.

(4) C$$Op. cit ., volume 1, volume 1, p. 280 and volume 2, p. 460 notes. 

(5) Bulletin of the SEFCO , volume II, 4th delivery, October-December
1965, p. 88-89.

Published in Aguiaine , bulletin of the S.E.F.C.O., volume XXIII, 2nd
delivery, March-April 1991, p 110-112.
----------------------------------------

What is etymology of the word "Treizain" ?

 It looks like corruption of german word:
      
dreizehn=thirteen

  So, perhaps, asking for a German researcher (there are few)
   can bring some historical references.

Thanks for the comments!

I am familiar with the page:
"A document on the treizain of marriage in Rochefort" 
and while it has some good information, it is not a primary source
from before 1900.

I believe that "Treizain" is from the French word for "thirteen" which
is probably similar to the German.  As far as I know, the tradition of
giving 13 coins at a wedding is not known in Germany.

I have found several references to "arras" in Spain (from Middle Ages
to 19th century) and some other to "treiziain" in France (from
different ages), but they are too much to post them here. This is the
first time I participate in Google Answers. ¿How can I proceed?.

Best regards,

A. (Spain)

Hi aldrobando-ga!

Google answers is really set up with the idea that any information
found will be posted here.  I'm not sure how Google Answers would feel
about you contacting me outside this forum, but I will point out that
I have a web page about these tokens at:
http://users.pullman.com/fjstevens/tokens/ArrasTokens/index.htm

Any reference to "Treizain" will probably be helpful to me.  However,
in Spain "Arras" is often used in a more general sense of any gift
given by the groom to the bride (which could be money, property,
clothes, furniture, etc).  While general references are of some
interest, I am mainly looking for references to "Arras" in the more
specific sense of a gift of a certain number of coins (usually 13).

Anyway, it is difficult to post all here. Some sources can't be freely
reproduced because their reproduction rights. Other sources are
dinamically generated (digital images from the original documents and
database results) than can't be posted neither as a link (session
expires) nor as text. I'll post here, one by one, the references than
can be posted as text. Here you have two, transcribed from the digital
image:

<b>Les marriages et le treizain dans le sudouest de la France (XXV,
162)</b>Je ne puis mieux faire que de renvoyer au travail suivan, ou
la question es etudiee avec erudition et interet: <i>Anciens Usages de
l'eglise de Reims dans la celebration du marriage</i>, par M. le
chanoine Ch. Cerf, dans les <i>Travaux de l'Academie de Reims</i>, t.
LXXXVII (1891), p. 195. Leon Germain.
- Dans les provinces du Nord de la France, cet usage existait encore
il y a peur d'anees: les maries presentaient avec l'anneau un certain
nombre de pieces de monnaie appelees "denies"; le pretre les benissait
er les remettait aux epoux: ceux-ci les gardaient jusqu'au mariage de
leurs enfants qui recevaient alors les <i>deniers</i> et les faisaient
benir de nouveau, et ainsi de suite pendant plusieurs generations. La
signification symbolique de cette ceremonie me parait etre d'attirer
les benedictions du ciel sur les interets materiels de la communaute.
Je dois ajouter, pour en avoir fait l'experience, que le clerge, dans
le departement du Nord, refuse maintenant de se preter a cet usage,
comme entache de paganisme. P.T.
- Cet usage existe, a ma connaissance, dans le Languedoc, le Poitou,
le Limousin, c'est done plus que dans le sudouest. Si le nom de
<i>treizan</i> est inconnu a plusieurs, l'usage dure encore presque
partout, mais au lieu de treize pieces, on n'en faut plus benir que
deux par le pretre; l'une, gardee par les epoux, et appelee <i>piece
de marriage</i>, represente les douze qui jadis (et meme encore
parfois), demeuraient en leurs mains; l'autre, c'est la <i>treizieme,
la part du diable</i>, comme on dit, que le pretre enleve et garde
pour lui, afin d'eviter que le demon ne vienne la rechercher au milieu
de celles du jeune menage. Si symbole il y a, c'est la qui'il faut le
chercher.<br> Jadis'on se servait comme treizains de pieces de mannaie
rares ou curieuses; les <i>doublons</i>, les <i>onzas</i> d'Espagne
etaient particulierement affectes a cet usage. On fabriquait meme des
pieces speciales. J'ai le treizain d'une de mes aieules, mariee en
Poitou, et dont les <i>douze</i> pieces ont servi a trois generations
consecutives. Il represente deux mains enlacees, et un coeur au reves,
le tout entoure de jolis ornements rocaille. Oroel.<br><br>From:
[L']intermédiaire des chercheurs et curieux : correspondance
littéraire, "Notes and queries" français, questions et réponses,
communications diverses à l'usage de tous, littérateurs et gens du
monde, artistes, bibliophiles, archéologues, généalogistes, etc. 1892,
1er trimestre (Vol. 25; Sér. 3 / Année 1), 30 april 1892, pages
425-426.
[More references in this publication, inf you need]
----------
<b>ARRAS</b>: Las trece monedas que en las velaciones sirven para la
formalidad de aquel acto pasando de las manos del desposado a las de
la esposa. <i>Arrhae, nummi, qui in nuptiis a sponso traduntur
sponsae</i>.

From: <i>Diccionario de la Real Academia de la Lengua Española</i>.
Madrid, 1770, page 325, columns 1-2.
[I can translate the spanish and latin text, if you need]
[More references in late editions of this publication, if you need]

Due to a mistake, in my last comment I posted a source which was yet
in your found references list: sorry about that. Here is another
reference, taken from a Catholic Ritual published in 1617 with the
arras as an important part of the ritual (in latin and old spanish):

"Domine Deus, omnipotens Pater qui in similitudinem fancti connubij
Isaac cum Rebecca per intermissionem Arrarum Abrahae famuli tui
copulare iussisti, vt oblatione munerum numerositas cresceret
filiorum; quaesumus clementiam tuam, vt adharum oblationem Arrarum,
quas hodie famulus  tuus dilectae  sponsae suae  offerre procurat,
Sanctificator accedas: eosque cum suis , Sanctis muneribus propitius
bene dicas: quatenus tua benedictione bene protecti, ac vinculo
dilectionis nexi, gaudeant se foeliciter cum tuis [68v] fidelibus
peremniter mancipari. Per Christum, &c. Resp. Amen. Benedictio
Anulorum. Oremus. Creator, & conservator humani generis: dator gratiae
spiritualis : largitor aeternae salutis: tu Deus mitte benedictionem
tuam super hos annulos: vt virtute coelestis defensionis proficiant
istis ad aeternam salutem. Per Dominum nostrum Iesum Christum Filium
tuum, qui tecum viuit, & regnat in vunitate Spiritus Sancti Deus, per
omnia saecula saeculorum. Resp. Amen. Et benedictio Dei Patris
omnipotentis, & Filij, & Spiritus Sancti descendat, & maneat super has
arras, & annulos. Resp. Amen. Eche agua bendita sobre las arras,
anillos, novios y circunstantes, diziendo: Per aquae benedictae
aspersionem det vobis omnipotens Deus suam gratiam & Benedictionem,
Amen. [...] Luego ponga las arras en las manos del Nouio, teniendolas
juntas, y abiertas: la Nouia pongalas juntas sobre el plato, y dira el
Nouio dandole las arras: Esposa, y muger, estas Arras vos dono en
señal de Matrimonio; assi como la Sancta Madre Iglesia Romana lo
manda. Y recibidas en las manos de la Nouia, diga: Yo assi las recibo.
Y sueltelas en el plato. El cura les tome de las manos derechas, y
assi los meta en la Iglesia, diziendo: Beati onmes, qui timent
Dominum, [69v] qui deambulant in vijs eius [...] [70r] En lo demas las
bendiciones se daran quando, y en la forma, que el Missal Romano
reformado manda: excepto en el cas ode segundas nuptias, de que trata
el Canon 13 de Matrimonio [...] Y entonces se deuen dexar las
bendiciones, y las ceremonias de velo, y jugal, ni se an de dar las
arras, ni anillos, como se dixo en el Canon citado."

From: Manuale uetus cordubense pro administratione sacramentorum, & ad
alia munera ecclesiastica fungenda. Cordoba, 1617. De Sacramento
Matrimonij: fols. 68r-70r.

[I can translate the old spanish and latin text, if you need]

Thanks for the info aldrobando-ga and sorry I didn't respond to your
last post sooner.  That 1617 Manuale is a great reference but it
appears (from my rudimentary Spanish and Latin) that "Arras" is used
in a general sense (many Spanish documents use "Arras" to mean "any
money or property given at a wedding").  Is there some place that I
missed that refers to a specific number of coins?

Well, I think that both sources (1617 and 1770) use the term in the
sense of "pieces of metal" or coins but in different ways.

The 1770 source says literally (in my bad english): "Arras: The
thirteen coins which are used in weddings for that event formality
passing from husband's hands to wife's ones". Note that this is the
first time this term appears in this prestigious normative dictionary
clearly sepparated from the old juridical meaning and clearly
identified as the thirteen coins ceremony.

You are right when you say that in the 1617 Ritual there is not a
concrete reference to "thirteen coins", but I think text's sense is
quite clear not to be understood in a general sense. Note that this
text was published for the direct use of priests, so I think no
further explanation is given because it was supossed to be known and
understood by them not as any money amount or properties, but as its
simbolic representation in the form of thirteen coins or tokens which
are passed from husband hands to wife's ones in a strict ceremony
which here is regulated.