Greetings GA Researchers,
I asked that my answer below be removed from this question because the
customer was not pleased with my findings. I am posting it so that
other Researchers will know what strategy has already been used.
Best regards,
journalist-ga
ANSWER AND CLARIFICATIONS REMOVED
Subject: Re: Info on Indian Maharaja
Answered By: journalist-ga on 29 Jul 2004 18:22 PDT
Greetings Ronim:
I have researched the information you provided and I have put together
the clues that I believe will solve the mystery.
To begin, Kathiawar or Kattywar is a peninsula of India and is also
known as Kamadhia.
http://38.1911encyclopedia.org/K/KA/KATHIAWAR.htm
A Kathiawar Chief would have been of the ruling class in Kathiawar. I
believe your picture is referencing a young, yet unnamed Kathiawar
Chief as painted by a person named Flora Luke.
Flora Luke's last known address would be
Holland Lodge
St. Botolphs Road
Worthing
There is a Worthing in the U.K. - here's a link to the Bureau of Worthing, UK
http://www.worthing.gov.uk/
I chose the spelling of St. Botolphs because this is the name of a popular saint:
"Saint Botolph was born in England around 610. In his youth he became
a monk in Gaul. By 654 he had returned to England and founded the
monastery of Ikanhoe in East Anglia-thereafter, the place came to be
called "Botolphston"
From http://www.roca.org/OA/115-116/115aa.htm
And in Worthing, there is a St. Botolphs Road
http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?sca...ROVISER&cat=hot
I did not locate any references to Flora Luke or Holland Lodge - Flora
apparently did not go on to success in the art world, at least not
under that name. And Holland Lodge was probably a lodge owned at that
time by a person whose last name was Holland.
I would wager that the artist visited Kathiawar as opposed to a young
chief visiting Worthing. But please read on to see that this
assumption may be incorrect...
To directly answer your questions:
* Was this Bhupinder Singh?
I do not believe this is Bhupinder Singh. I believe this is the
portrait of a young, Kathiawar Chief painted by the artist during her
travels or while in England. However, I believe this portrait you
possess may be something quite rare. Please consider visiting an
art/antique appraiser to ascertain its historical value and monetary
worth. It may prove to be of great value to historians.
* Who was the artist?
Flora Luke. Her name is located within the address.
*What was the Maharaja doing at the address in Worhing?Didhe visit
there in his young age?
He may have visited Worthing at one time but I found nothing to
support that on the Internet. But regarding the Kathiawar chiefs, I
may have discovered a possible name for your mystery boy. On this
site, there is a Kamadhia Royal family history beginning in 1860
http://www.uq.net.au/~zzhsoszy/ips/k/kamadhia.html
The boy in the portrait may be named there because the site reads in part
"The Kamadhia Royal family was greatly influenced with the English way
of life. Darbar Shri Nawab Mir Jafur Ali spent four years in London
(the first Indian Prince to visit England in 1844). His son Darbar
Shri Mir Zulfikar Ali was a boy of four when his father died in 1863.
The British Authorities in India were so close to the Mir Princes that
they took the young Prince of Kamadhia under their wings."
It continues, "On the 12th of May 1873 Sir T.C. Hope the Guardian and
Administrator of Darbar Shri Nawab Mir Zulfikar Ali sent him to
England for his education. On June 9th, 1873 the boat (Indus) landed
at South Hampton. From there the Prince was taken to London and
resided at Bayswater. Darbar Shri Nawab Mir Zulfikar Ali lived with
the Harker Hodges family and was under their guardianship. In December
1876 Darbar Shri Nawab Mir Zulfikar Ali returned to India."
So, this may serve to date the portrait to earlier than 1876. Miss
Luke may have painted the boy while he was in England.
Thank you for your patience with my long answer. I hope it to your
satisfaction, and I hope you will see an appraiser with the portrait.
If you require any clarification, please request it and I will be
happy to respond.
Best regards,
journalist-ga
SEARCH STRATEGY:
"Bhupinder Singh" Worthing
Holland Lodge Worthing
Holland Lodge Worthing
St Botolphs Road Worthing
St Botolphs Bhupinder Singh
Kathiawar
Kathiawar Bhupinder Singh
Kathiawar chiefs
Kattawar Bhupinder Singh
Kattywar Bhupinder Singh
Saurashtra Bhupinder Singh
Darbar Shri Nawab Worthing
Darbar Shri Mir Zulfikar Ali Worthing
Zulfikar Ali Worthing
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Request for Answer Clarification by ronim-ga on 30 Jul 2004 10:50 PDT
Thanks for the feedback but I have consulted several experts and as
already mentioned the portrait is almost definately of a young
Bhupinder Singh of Patiala due to distict facial features than can be
seen in his later portraits and the critical confirmation is the
emerald and ruby sarppunch of Patiala...which initself was a unique
design.
I suspect the old paper label stuck on is a later addition and hence
the confusion with a Kathiawar "Chief" :besides no Indian royalty was
referred to as a "Chief" and certainly by no contemporary as this was
not a correct title.
I have had a look at the Kathiawar site and none of the persons
featured looks like the young portrat i have...all this leads me to
the conclusion that the Kathiawar connection isn't thee.
Besides alot of Indian royalty from the the 1860's onwards visited
England and many of their offspring were bought up in England for
schooling or spentlong periods of time with tutors,etc,...even lowly
gun salute states such as Kathiawar as your research found out.
I wish I could post the images so you can clearly see it is Bhupinder
Singh with doubt based on the 2 factors I have discussed .
Thus I feel the question is not answered as there is no substantive
evidence not only on the correct subject but also on Flora Luke or
Holland Lodge.....for example you state "Flora Luke's last known
address would be Holland Lodge"...what facts substatiate this?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Clarification of Answer by journalist-ga on 31 Jul 2004 07:50 PDT
Greetings again, Ronim:
I understand your position because while I spent a little under two
hours researching your answer, I did it knowing that you would
probably not accept the results. Allow me to clarify the answer
further.
By combining the paper with the portrait, you question seemed to
indicate that they went together, so please understand that I was
thorough in researching both the paper and to see if Bhupinder Singh
had any relation to the information on the paper (please see my
research strategy above to note the Bhupinder Singh terms I searched
in conjuction with the address you provided).
To answer how I know the artist's name, you yourself provided it by
the "F. Luke" portrait signature accompanied by the name "Flora Luke"
appearing in the address. You provided:
"On the back is an old paper stuck on it which reads
"portrait of Kaithiawar??(this word is not clear) Chief,
holland Lodge,
St Bolosphs (?) Road,
Flora Luke,
Wothing."
You can see above "Wothing" (which I believe is Worthing) that there
is the name, "Flora Luke", no doubt the "F. Luke" in question. As I
noted in my answer, the name is included within the address you posted
from the paper. I believe that the name coupled with the address
means that, at one time, Flora Luke resided at Holland Lodge in
Worthing. That's how I reached my conclusion on this.
In your clarification, you wrote "I suspect the old paper label stuck
on is a later addition and hence the confusion with a Kathiawar
"Chief" :besides no Indian royalty was referred to as a "Chief" and
certainly by no contemporary as this was not a correct title."
The notation of chief used for a ruling member of Kathiawar is used on
the Internet. Here are some other resources to show clarity on this
matter (I've placed asterisks on each side of the "chief(s) references
in the text for easier viewing):
"Swamiji stayed in this beautiful palace for many days and held
discussion in Durbar hall of the palace with Maharaja Thakore Saheb of
Limbdi, Shri Yashwantshinji (1859-1907) who was a brilliant, learned
and cultured prince. He was the first Kathiawar *Chief* to visit
England (in 1876)."
http://www.rkmvm.com/history1.asp
"[Manji Ghulam Hussain Padamsi (1883-1925)] died on November 24, 1925
at his Padamsi Seaview Bungalow, Bombay at 6.00 a.m. The Imam said at
the Bombay Jamatkhana on January 22, 1926 that, "I am sad for Manji?s
demise. He served me tremendously. His services are glorified in all
places. He was a *chief* (sardar) in the Kathiawar Supreme Council."
http://www.ismaili.net/Source/mumtaz/Heroe...s1/hero070.html
"The initial idea for establishing such an exclusive college, open
only to the princely families of the particular region, had been put
forward in 1869 by a Captain Walter [then Political Agent, Bharatpur].
A year later, the first of the *Chiefs'* College named aptly the
Rajkumar College, catering for the ruling family of Kathiawar, opened
at Rajkot in Western India."
http://www.aitchison.edu.pk/mod.php?mod=us...1300&page_id=17
"Thakur Saheb Shri JITENDRASINHJI DHARMENDRASINHJI, *Chief* of Muli
educated at Rajkumar College, married to a Princess of Bikaner, and
has issue."
http://www.uq.net.au/~zzhsoszy/ips/m/muli.html
"GONDAL, a native state of India, in the Kathiawar political agency of
Bombay, situated in the centre of the peninsula of Kathiawar... The
*chief*, whose title is Thakur Sahib, is a Jadeja Rajput, of the same
clan as the Rao of Cutch."
http://21.1911encyclopedia.org/G/GO/GONDAL.htm
And this from the web page cited in my answer "Darbar Shri Nawab Mir
Ghulam Khwaja Moinuddin Khan was the most benevolent of *Chiefs* often
forgiving petty criminals as compared to his predecessors Darbar Shri
Mir Sarfaraz Ali I and Darbar Shri Mir Bakar Ali who ruled as regent
between (1863-1880)."
http://www.uq.net.au/~zzhsoszy/ips/k/kamadhia.html
So you can see that the term "chief" is being currently used in
association with Kathiawar rulers.
I hope this answers your additional questions and if you require
further clarification, please request it.
Best regards,
journalist-ga
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Request for Answer Clarification by ronim-ga on 31 Jul 2004 09:03 PDT
Thanks for your further clarification but I am no closer to answering
the 3 questions I aked to start with which are again:
* Was this Bhupinder Singh?
* Who was the artist?
*What was the Maharaja doing at the address in Worhing?Didhe visit
there in his young age?
I knew the artist was Flora Luke...I mentioned it....I wanted to know
more about her when I asked who she was.
i expected more factual info on Holland Lodge from the local Municipal
records,etc to ltnk the owner with Bhupinder Sigh.
I know have info on Kathiawar and the use of the term "chief" so I am
not a happy camper if you feel you have answered my question!Your
thoughts?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Clarification of Answer by journalist-ga on 31 Jul 2004 10:21 PDT
Because I could locate no information on the Internet about Flora Luke
or Holland Lodge in Worthing, I had included this link
http://www.worthing.gov.uk/ (Bureau of Worthing, UK) in my original
answer hoping you might find a local historian through the bureau
that could assist you at a local level. It may behoove you to go that
route.
These search terms returned no results:
"Flora Luke" Worthing
://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=...uke%22+worthing
"Flora Luke" "Holland Lodge"
://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=...%22&btnG=Search
"Flora Luke" artist
://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=...ist&btnG=Search
"Flora Luke" painter
://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=...Luke%22+painter
"Holland Lodge" Worthing
://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=...dge%22+Worthing
I also tried
"F Luke" painting
"F Luke" painter
"F Luke" Worthing
"F Luke" artist
"F Luke" portrait
I also searched her name at http://www.artcyclopedia.com/ There is
one Luke noted there, a Sir Luke Fildes [English Painter, 1843-1927]
http://www.artcyclopedia.com/artists/filde...s_sir_luke.html. It's
possible that the Luke F. was reversed by the artist to F. Luke but
that's a stretch. However, here's a link to sme of his portraits so
you can compare his painting style and technique on portraits to your
portrait.
http://www.npg.org.uk/live/search/person.a...p01571&role=art
Hiring a Worthing historian for this project is probably the best way
to find out more about Flora Luke. The Internet just doesn't have the
info on her that you require.
Best regards,
journalist-ga
--------------------------------------------------------------
Request for Answer Clarification by ronim-ga on 31 Jul 2004 13:54 PDT
Thanks...I had already contacted the Museam at Worhing last week so I
am waiting for their response.
Can you try and give me info on Bhupinder Singh's childhood/visits to
the Uk so it at leat parially answersone out of the 3 components that
made up the basisof my question in the first instancesince the other
2have failed to yield any results from the Net?
then I can Pay for something at least.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Clarification of Answer by journalist-ga on 01 Aug 2004 07:09 PDT
I've already contacted the Google editors and asked that this answer
be removed so that you won't have to pay for my time (approaching four
hours total at present). I'm sorry that you found my research
unacceptable, but another Researcher may be able to help.
Best regards,
journalist-ga
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Request for Answer Clarification by ronim-ga on 01 Aug 2004 08:20 PDT
Thankyou |
