Someone just posed an interesting question that might well have been
asked here before... can an omniscient and omnipotent god create a
rock that is too heavy for him to lift? Any ideas?

This is an old argument proposed by atheists who are trying to argue
the omnipotence is illogical and the very claim of such proves
Christianity false.  This is because they see it as an impossible
idea, but they spinning truth by leaving out important details and
concepts.  This reminds me of a classic argument posed by Muslims. 
Muslims say that Jesus is not God because he never says that he is God
in the New Testament.  While it is true that he never says, "I am God"
in that manner of speech, he does in-fact make that claim but in the
most enlightened and accurate way possible.  Keep in mind also that he
was being secret about this fact up until that time because it might
have affected the timetable for his crucifixion if the wrong people
heard that message too soon.  So he does end up making this claim, and
you have to be a reader of the whole text of the Bible to know this. 
In John 8:58 he states "Jesus said to them, Truly I say to you, Before
Abraham came into being, I am."  The use of the name "I am" would have
been unmistakable at the time to be referring to the name of God,
which is sacred.  Jesus was claiming his deity and thusly, in the next
verse the crowd tried to stone him for it.

As with most weighty questions, this calls for clear understanding of
the truth.  Most importantly, the truth as it is stated in the whole
context of the Bible.  First, omnipotence is not even mentioned in the
Bible, so we need to more accurately define this concept.  We need to
realize the envelope within which God is defined in the Bible in terms
of the nature of his being and power.

First of all, you must understand that God is not human.  He's not
even physical.  God is outside of physics, for to create physics; he
could not have been constrained by them.  God has no form that the
physical world can relate to and likewise, questions about his
performing physical feats are already flawed because you can't think
of God purely in those terms.

Second, and perhaps most enlightening is that God does have limits. 
Since God has chosen to define himself in a most logical way, he has
created rules of his own nature, which do not allow certain things. 
For instance, God cannot:

Sin
Fail
Be destroyed
Be corrupted
Get smarter
Lose smarts
Change
Get Tired

It's allot like saying God is a winner.  If God is a winner, he cannot
be a loser.  God cannot be illogical; he cannot violate his own nature
because to do so is absurd.

God cannot create a rock too big to lift because God cannot be limited
by the physical world.  I think the real question atheists are trying
to pose is, can God do the absurdly illogical?  The answer is no.  God
has power and dominion over everything he chooses to.  God simply is
the most powerful.  To propose that he can infer or give more power to
a rock than he has is just an insane question. It defies logic, so it
actually defeats the atheist?s purpose of defeating theism through
logic, because they can't even see how illogical their supposition is.

I hope this answers your question, but I cannot accept money for
witnessing God's truth.  If you feel compelled to pay the money,
please donate the money to a church or Christian charity instead.

You can find more on this topic at sites like:
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/rock.html

http://www.carm.org/

Omnipotence is a way of describing a being that has understanding far
beyond our mortal logic. To ask if God can do the ?logically
possible?, i.e., ?create a rock that he cannot lift?, it to demand a
logical answer in omnipotent terms. One cannot ask for a logical
solution about an omnipotent subject anymore than one can seek a
mathematical solution to an omnipotent subject. Consider this:

?Can God create a rock that he cannot lift?? vs. ?What would the
mathematical formula be that would permit God to create a rock that he
cannot lift??

These are equally ridiculous questions for which no answer can be
given any more than we could answer the questions ?Could God make a
circular triangle, outrun himself or prove that he does not exist??

See what I mean?

Regards;
Tutuzdad-ga

The answer is yes.  

"But wait," you gleefully and agnostically shout, "then He is not
omnipotent because he CANNOT do something, i.e., he cannot lift this
infinitely heavy rock; therefore, by extension, He is not God (because
God is omnipotent)."  This does not work to disprove God's existence,
however, because it is like saying, "God is not God because He cannot
count to the end of an infinite number."  It is nonsensical: there is
no end to an infinite number, and thus an inability to count to the
end of it does not render God impotent.  By analogy, does God cease to
be God because He cannot pick up an infinite number of grains of sand
(that He presumably created)?  Because He cannot eat an infinite
number of bananas (that He presumably created)?  Because He cannot
accurately weigh a rock with infinite weight (that He presumably
created)?  And, finally, because He cannot "lift" that same rock?  No.

You cannot even make a rock big enough that I cannot move! This is
because F=m*a, so even though my F is small, and the m is huge, there
will always be even a miniscule a. The movement might be almost
immeasurable if I were to try to move the earth, but there will be
some movement. I guess the question is meant to be within the confines
of our earth's gravity, i.e, can God lift a rock with our
gravitational field. But if God created the earth, I think he could
lift or move any size rock (the Bible talks about prophets who were
able to move mountains by faith).

He did it, but it was in a wood where there wasn't anyone else.  When
he put it down it knocked over a tree in that wood.  So the real
question is did the tree make a sound as it fell if no one was there
to hear it? <grin>

They actually did a study on this.  The put a tape recorder in the
woods.  They came back and the question is still unanswerable because
the tree landed on the tape recorder and smashed it.

Have fun.

This is actually a good little koan, meaning it's not meant
to be answered with the same logic with which it's phrased,
but is meant to take you to a place beyond the duality of
logic, where an understanding of God might be possible.

Two points might make things a little more clear. God cannot
contradict the nature of God; and omnipotent doesn't mean
a being who is all-powerful, in the sense that it can 
accomplish anything. An omnipotent being is one through 
which all power that is exhibited must move. That is to
say, there is no power demonstrated anywhere which is not
of that being. It means that no power can be exerted without
it coming from that being. Since all that exists derived,
and continues to derive, its existence from God, this makes
perfect sense. God is the creative power which is the 
foundation for all that is, was, and will be.

All of the powers, exhibited by all the things that are,
are sustained by that ongoing creative power. The ability
of all living things to continue living, growing, expressing
in a billion ways, comes from God.

And yet, this creative life force cannot contradict its own
nature. You cannot plant corn and grow beans. You cannot
think negatively and grow happier. You cannot comprehend the 
nature of a being which is unified beyond duality by using
words which have opposites. Not even God can do these things.

sublime1-ga

Let's see, you want to find God, and you are willing to spend all of
two bucks on the search. Not exactly the perl of great price...

Genesis 18:14
Is anything too hard for the LORD?

FOR NEO. John 8;58. Jesus said to them, "Most truly Isay to you.
Before Abraham came into existence, I HAVE BEEN. NOT " I AM".
Colossians 1;15-17.."He [ Jesus] is the image of the INVISIBLE God,
the FIRSTBORN of ALL creation...All things were created through him
and for him" Jesus was the FIRST creation of God. Then God created the
heavens and the earth. Lots of rock!.
Isaiah 40;26.."Raise your eyes high up and see. Who has created these
things [stars] It is the one who is bringing forth the army of them
even by number, all of whom He calls even by name. Due to the
abundance of dynamic energy, he also being vigorous in power, not one
of them is missing".
John 17;5.."[ in prayer, Jesus said] Father, glorify thou me in thy
own presence with the glory WHICH I HAD with thee before the earth was
made". RS translation.
John 8;23.."So he went on to say to them. "You are from the realms
below; I am from the realms above. You are from this world [ the
earth]. I am not from this world.
John 8;28..,"Therefore Jesus said. "{ When once you have lifted up the
son of man, then you will know that I am [he] and that I DO NOTHING OF
MY OWN INITIATIVE, but just as the Father taught me, I speak these
things.
From all thes scriptures, they show that Jesus is NOT God, but his
son, and as a son, did just as his Father saked of him, and Jesus was
beside God when the heavens were created, and there can be no bigger
rock than the entire heavens [ universe].
 If God made it, he can lift it.

The standard theological response is to say that there is no stone so
heavy that God can't lift it. God can create stones of any weight and
lift stones of any weight. This has the (relatively harmless)
consequence of conceding that God cannot create a stone so heavy tht
he can't life it.
you can find a discussion in Brian Davies's 'An Introduction to the
Philosophy of Religion'  2nd edition. (Penguin). See the chapter on
omnipotence.
Amber

I'm not certain which translation you're using, but understand that
the most literal translation is "I am"

8:58   Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before
Abraham was, I am.

This matches God's announcement of his name in Exodus 3:14 and it is
the only explanation for the Jews picking up stones to stone Jesus
after he said what he said.  To be in existance for thousands of
years, from the time of Abraham to Jesus is a feat that only a
supernatural being can claim.  Jesus was claiming diety and that was
blasphemy to the Jews because they didn't know the truth.





See strong's references for the literal translation below.

1473   //  egw  //  ego   //  eg-o'  //  

a primary pronoun of the first person I (only expressed when 
emphatic); TDNT - 2:343,196; pron 

AV - I 365, my 2, me 2, not tr 1; 370 

1) I, me, my 

1510   //  eimi  //  eimi   //  i-mee'  //  

the first person singular present indicative; a prolonged form of 
a primary and defective verb; TDNT - 2:398,206; v 

AV - I am +   1473  74, am 55, it is I +   1473  6, be 2, I was +   1473  1, 
have been 1, not tr 7; 146 

1) to be, to exist, to happen, to be present

It appears to me, that the Bible frequently uses absolute words
without qualifing them, but so do many books and many of us are
imprudent in this manner, so this is a poor reason to reject the
message of the Bible. That particular example borders on silly as God
could easily move the whole Earth a tiny amount, and so can you, just
by stamping your foot.   Neil

Apologies to anybody who though I was being flippant in asking this
question. I (rather naively, I suppose) didn't see it as that
religious a question... I thought it was more of a riddle. Anyhow,
thanks for everybody's contributions...

Hello Rai130,
My opinion is that the idea of an omniscient and omnipotent god creating a
rock that is too heavy for him to lift is an illogical proposition. If
God can make the rock, then he can lift it for sure, for the creative
power of a deity doesn't come without manipulative power of any sort,
whether physical or metaphysical. They go together.

In asking this question, the questioner has already assumed the
existence of gravity. By definition, God created everything. Hence,
God created gravity. Since God can create gravity, he can certainly
make it disappear. So God can lift any stone. Put another way, this
question could become: if God were to have an arm wrestling match
between his right arm and left arm, which arm would win? Both arms
belong to God. This is not a contest; there is no winning or losing.
Therefore this is a stupid question.