Lately, people in my field (IT) are becoming quite paranoid about
having their job outsourced to India.  I believe their fears are
unfounded.  Yes, the ecomomy sucks right now.  Yes, unemployment is
high.  Yes, *some* jobs are outsourced overseas.  But jobs have
*always* been outsourced overseas.  It's part of having a global
economy, and it's not necessarly something that is bad for U.S.
workers.  And just because you were laid off, doesn't mean your job
went to India! People tell me that, but when I question them ("how do
you know? Did you train your Indian replacement? Did your company open
a office in India or sign a contract with an Indian firm right before
you were laid off?") it turns out they don't know, they are just
assuming because they keep hearing the news about jobs being
outsourced.  (And we all know how reliable and unbiased the news is)

I'd like some REAL numbers about how many jobs were outsourced in a
recent time period (last 5 years, 10 years, doesn't matter) with some
real numbers about how many new jobs were created in the U.S. in the
same time, and some numbers about a different time period in the past,
with how many new jobs were created in that time period, and how many
were sent overseas.  Any concrete evidence that points one way or
another.

Yes!

And India is doing a GREAT job.

The Call Centres there are (generally) MUCH better than our local ones
here in the UK.

I have no first hand info, but I fear probono is correct. I would
guess somewhere between 1000 and 10,000  new jobs are created weekly
in India, most of which moved there from a first world county
including the USA. Improved politness and helpfulness by remaining IT
services will help slow the out sourcing, and obiviously you should
not ask for a pay raise.   Neil

Jobs are being outsourced but not at an alarming rate a mere 2%, and
it is not only India, but may developing countries such as China,
Brasil. It is a fierce world of competition and fittest only survives.

Unfortunately for alot of us in the IT field, India is looking better
and brighter for companies to use as cheap efficient labor. The cost
of living is amazingly lower then ours, salaries of course are lower.
I know how ugly office rumors can get, and I know how much worse they
get when the tech stocks are down and no one is hiring.

I agree with Probono, telemarketing and now customer service
appearently is moving from inmates to India.

Department of Corrections
http://doc.dc.gov/doc/cwp/view,a,3,q,491550.asp
"This course offers instruction on providing customer service. The
goal is to ensure that DC Department of Corrections employees learn to
provide a courteous and professional level of telephone-based customer
service. Employees gain an in depth understanding of their
responsibilities, become proficient in executing procedures, and learn
to evaluate service delivery systems from a customer perspective."

The Statesman
http://www.thestatesman.net/page.news.php?clid=12&theme=&usrsess=1&id=50089
"The Washington Alliance of Technology Workers (WashTech) said it has
obtained internal company documents that show that Microsoft now
employs nearly 2,000 workers in India, double the 970 number it
previously acknowledged."

Neil, I would appreciate seeing your facts to support your opinion. Is
there a website or newspaper where you read these numbers? Or should
we assume these are just a personal guess?

Mother911-ga

I don't think real numbers are available.  The best you can do is
estimates, which vary.  For example, see:

http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=38081

http://www.ebstrategy.com/Outsourcing/trends/statistics.htm

--efn

Let me add my .4 nickels from somebody who has had ties to industries
where outsourcing is prevalent.

OUTSOURCING CAN BE GOOD:

I work as a technology specialist. When I need to phone a service
provider for technical support, it is because I need VERY high level
information and instruction as quickly as possible. In one case, my
client had a major network hardware glitch which brought down the
company's corporate network. Over the course of the next day, the
vendor's tech support hotline guided me to people in Costa Rica,
Britain, India, and Australia, depending on the time of day.

This was good for two reasons: (1) It allowed the vendor to pool their
global resources of hard-to-find technical specialists around the
world, and (2) it probably made it easier for them to provide 24/7
support.


OUTSOURCING CAN BE BAD

One of my clients informed a customer service specialist that her job
was being outsourced to India over the next few months and she would
be responsible for the transition. She accepted her fate, was admitted
to a prestigious graduate program, and tried to work with the Indian
team to transfer her tremendous knowledge into their hands.

The experiment was a complete disaster. Over the course of a couple
months, my client learned the hard way that her years of experience in
US-based health care management had made her a treasure trove of
knowledge that could not be quickly duplicated overseas. The Indian
team just didn't have enough background in how US health care
businesses worked to ensure a smooth transition with the clients and
providers. Realizing that their valuable employee had only weeks
before the start of graduate school, they fired the Indian vendor, and
did a job search within the local area to find somebody who could
quickly ramp up to the responsibilities for the job.

On another note, this same client is currently trying to save cash by
outsourcing development to India and Eastern Europe. They are so
focused on this outsourcing effort that they haven't noticed how half
of their US-based development team, comprised of people with years of
experience with their products, have already walked out the door
towards better opportunities. This company is about 50% doers/makers
(i.e. technical specialists and customer service) and 50%
management/sales (sales force, project managers, product managers,
etc). Those that are leaving are all technical specialists and
customer service. Something tells me that it's just a matter of time
before the remainder of the techs see the handwriting on the wall and
take off. When that happens, the company will have lost decades of
collective knowledge and will find itself with outsourced consultants
who have no training on the products. Doesn't bode well for this
company...


OUTSOURCING IS A NECESSITY

Yesterday, I phoned 3 health insurance plans while shopping around. I
wanted to know the rate paid for "reasonable and customary fees" for a
specific type of procedure out-of-network. Two of the three were able
to tell me this number within minutes. The customer service rep at the
third health insurance plan demanded specific data about the doctor I
intended to see including his tax ID number, license number, and other
information that was totally irrelevant to my question.

I explained that I was asking a completely theoretical question, and
she refused to continue, refused to forward me to a supervisor, and
took no other action to resolve the issue. I told her that other
providers were able to pull up this information within minutes with
only a zip code and a procedure code. Her response? "I'm sorry but my
computer won't let me submit the query without that other
information."

I'm willing to pay a premium for creativity. I'm willing to pay a
premium for good customer service and pleasant interractions. I am
*NOT* willing to pay a US minimum-wage premium for an automaton
chained to a computer with an idiot-proof script on the screen. If
sending this moron's job overseas for pennies on the dollar will save
me some of the $400/month I pay for health insurance, then so be it
and let these people say good riddance to their jobs.

/ephraim

for ephraim-ga 
OutSourcing helps everyone, if done in right way :)

The problem today is that companies in US are hiring mediocre people
back in India to do the job :(

It is for the US company to understand that by paying 300$ a month for
a seat, they cannot expect quality ?

I am sure an Average American staying in US would not be fully aware
of US HealthCare and Insurance Industry, how could you expect an
Indian (with average qualification) staying in India can learn these
things in 3 months training (an average time before a candidate hits
the floor)

The Problem does not end there, the problem also lies with the Call
Centre companies here in India, to ramp up the Quarterly figures,
these companies are competing against each other to get business.

They quote low to get business, and then make compromises in quality of candidates.

We are country having ONE Billion + People, if you cannot get the
right people here, where else will you get it ? but companies in India
are not hiring right people for job because of low margins and high
competition :(

I myself get perturbed with present state of affairs, for small gains,
these unscrupulous companies are tarnishing the whole concept of
OutSourcing (and India off course !!!) :(

(Sorry baerana-ga !!! if the comment is out of context.. I just
thought I would add 2 PS. for his .4 nickles) :)

I know personally of a number of offices in a high-tech corporation
where workers were laid off during the dot-com bust.  Contractors in
India were then hired to relieve the overload on the remaining
workers.  These are not call center operators or technicians but
*writers* of technical documentation.  The Indian workers hired were
nonnative speakers of English whose English is loaded with errors,
needing very heavy editing and extensive rework.  They had never held
technical writing jobs or writing jobs of any kind before and were not
even trained in technical writing (which is not available in India),
never mind having had any exposure whatsoever to the products they
were to be writing about or ever even seeing a single document on the
subject before.

The company thinks it is saving money because the hourly rate of these
workers is about 1/5 of that of their American counterparts; but what
it takes to make the work of these so-called writers fit to publish
requires *far* more time on the part of the US-based team (paid at US
rates) than it would have taken a well-trained, experienced,
English-speaking tech. doc. pro to do it in the first place.  That's a
measurable dollar difference that no one seems to be counting.  The
unmeasured impact is far more teeth-gnashing, hair-tearing
frustration, grief, and long, grueling hours on the part of the US
team, which is already overextended because of reduced staff.

The bottom line is a higher real cost than before, while qualified
American writers in Silicon Valley go jobless, collecting unemployment
for a short time from a system into which the Indian workers who took
their jobs are not paying.  The wisdom of this arrangement is very
hard to see.

Archae0pteryx