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Subject:
WHICH JOHN, DID GREATER HARM TO OUR COUNTRY?
Category: Relationships and Society > Politics Asked by: toughlover-ga List Price: $2.00 |
Posted:
03 Aug 2004 18:33 PDT
Expires: 02 Sep 2004 18:33 PDT Question ID: 383181 |
A TALLYBAN-JOHN OR A TURN-COAT-HERO? After all Tallaban Johnny left the country and effectively relinquished his aliegence and citizenry openly. All I would have done to punish Tallaban John, was banish him from ever re-entering the USA. Even if T.J. had actually killed a fellow American Soldier, that does not have the same detriment to the U.S. as a Whited Sueulchre claiming richeous indignation in the presence of our enemies and the dishonest Forth Estate othrwise known as the Fifth Column...Grandma Moses used to say there is no enimy worse than a "House Enimy" "don't stay on acows back while cursing its skin" I claim no supernatural spelling powers, and I relagate to myself the right to solesize and hyperbalize till I know better...Let not manner spoil meaning... |
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There is no answer at this time. |
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Subject:
Re: WHICH JOHN, DID GREATER HARM TO OUR COUNTRY?
From: cmiller-ga on 04 Aug 2004 11:31 PDT |
Gosh, you must be a Republican right? Well, Mr. T.-; JT is a traitor. Lucky we didn't execute him as all traitors should be, and for your accusations to JK; well sir, he does come from a rather wealthy family, but unlike the mentioned JT he chose to fight for our Country. Hmm, fight for, or trait-or....Really this is below me to even respond, but alas, I felt someone should. |
Subject:
Re: WHICH JOHN, DID GREATER HARM TO OUR COUNTRY?
From: pinkfreud-ga on 04 Aug 2004 12:22 PDT |
Let me guess... By "turn-coat hero," you must mean Johnny Depp. |
Subject:
Re: WHICH JOHN, DID GREATER HARM TO OUR COUNTRY?
From: toughlover-ga on 04 Aug 2004 17:22 PDT |
Dear CMiller, I am glad that you deigned to honor me with your response. I promise that if I walk away with YOUR views, I will have won something, not lost, since my views shall remain my views, only so long as they shall appear to be true views. Incidentally I am infact a registered Democrat, but as my screen-name suggests I espouse TOUGH LOVE. No Party-Animal here. I endeavor not to let loyalty trump honesty. My mantra is "everybody should be a Democrat until he knows better." By the way Sir. Miller, may I remind you that Benidict Arnold, did fight for this country also. May I also remind that the devil was also once in Heaven at the right Hand of God.? Shakespear is known to have said "tell me what I am, not what I was". With this last quote, you could say then why am I not allowing your hero to move on from what he was? The answer is: He did not repent, nor relinquish his habit, it is now his character hense his destiny. Please help me out here. Could you refresh my memory on the definition of "trator"? You see I was of the opinion that a traitor is one who pretends to be for something but instead works underhandedly to against it. |
Subject:
Re: WHICH JOHN, DID GREATER HARM TO OUR COUNTRY?
From: toughlover-ga on 04 Aug 2004 17:35 PDT |
El Pinko, you have more of a fight in you than that. Are you affraid that I may steal your views? Give it your best shot, I promise that I will be like the Austrailian Aboriginies, and run over to your side to lend you some armo if you run out.:) |
Subject:
Re: WHICH JOHN, DID GREATER HARM TO OUR COUNTRY?
From: rai130-ga on 05 Aug 2004 04:45 PDT |
Defining traitor often depends on which side one is standing... Werner von Braun, Rudolf Hess, Albert Speer, Kim Philby, Sol Cambell (don't worry about this one if you don't follow the English Premier League!), Oliver Cromwell, Sean O'Callaghan, Blondie (obviously not quite so serious, but apparently it was at the time if you cared about that sort of thing), Winston Churchill (in party political terms), Pizarro, Martin Luther (not King Jr), the signatories to the Declaration of Independence.... (ooooh, controversial!), nearly every Scottish clan (from all the others' point of view)....... All the above are heroes to some and traitors to others... Of course there is always the OED definition.... 1. One who betrays any person that trusts him, or any duty entrusted to him; a betrayer. In early use often, and still traditionally, applied to Judas Iscariot. |
Subject:
Re: WHICH JOHN, DID GREATER HARM TO OUR COUNTRY?
From: toughlover-ga on 05 Aug 2004 10:21 PDT |
OK Count Rail, I hear you loud and clear. In other wordl it is all "RELATIVE". I am struggling with a similar delimma with an up-coming question I am working on, about "LOYALTY versus HONESTY. As a Tough Love espouser, I immediately spring for honesty, until!, until I contemplate the loyalty to my country. Especially if my country were Hitler's Germany. I am still working on a Soloman like, solution before I ask the question. Let me rein you back in alittle. We certainly can restrict the definition of "traitor" to a given discussion, and a given erra and a given situation so as not to render the question un-answerable. Incidentally I did not employ the word "traitor" in my discussion. It was C. Miller who introduced it to describe that Tallyban Johny. My contention is that a person who leaves this country and virtually walks away from his citizenship to fight for another country, openly, does less harm to us than one who stays here pretending to be for us but doing and saying things that are detrimental to our greater good, while hiding behind the constitution and the Flag which he himself turned up-side-down on the cover of his book. America has no trouble addressing open, outside enimies, it is the HOUSE-ENEMIES like the Peacenics who "does us in" everytime |
Subject:
Re: WHICH JOHN, DID GREATER HARM TO OUR COUNTRY?
From: manofredearth-ga on 05 Aug 2004 13:06 PDT |
I find it interesting that you have written so much and yet said so little. If you already have the answer maybe you should move over to a forum rather than posing as a person with a question. |
Subject:
Re: WHICH JOHN, DID GREATER HARM TO OUR COUNTRY?
From: pinkfreud-ga on 05 Aug 2004 16:36 PDT |
TL, This is the third time that you've called me "El Pinko." I find this a bit disturbing, since it implies that I am a male who espouses leftist sentiments. Wrong on both counts. I am a middle-aged female Bible-beater whose political heroes are Ronald Reagan, Thomas Sowell, and Robert Bork. While most Google Answers Researchers seem to be lefties (and some of 'em are outright pinko), please don't place me in that camp. PF |
Subject:
Re: WHICH JOHN, DID GREATER HARM TO OUR COUNTRY?
From: toughlover-ga on 05 Aug 2004 17:13 PDT |
Dear Dear PinkFreug-ga, Forgive me for I have sinned. I just took a chance on a made-up term of endearment. I ment no harm and it was out of complete ignorance of any conotations of the word. I honestly did not know that the word has the meaning you infer. as my friend Barry Farber would say "you are inferring where I did not imply", Intentionally that is. OK now that we have kissed and made-up, will you fire some good-natured shots across my bow? |
Subject:
Re: WHICH JOHN, DID GREATER HARM TO OUR COUNTRY?
From: pinkfreud-ga on 05 Aug 2004 17:23 PDT |
>> OK now that we have kissed and made-up, will you fire some >> good-natured shots across my bow? I'd rather leave the shot-firing to others. Public political debate isn't something that I enjoy. ~Pink |
Subject:
Re: WHICH JOHN, DID GREATER HARM TO OUR COUNTRY?
From: toughlover-ga on 05 Aug 2004 18:11 PDT |
Dear Manofredearth-ga: "Blessed is he who can pick sence from nonsense" I consider myself fortunate that you did not attack me (the man). Persons of your ilk usually abandon the argument and attack the man. Thank you, thank you. I am positive that if you could confute my argument you would not be nit-picking about "FORUM". Incidentally would you deign to educate me as to what constitute "forum" My humble understanding (without consulting the dictionery) of a "forum" is a news paper, a swimming pool, a radio show, the supermarket, a box from which people used to sell soap any place where one can cmmand attention, etc. Streighten me out if this notion is incorrect. Incidentally regarding your grouse that I already know the answer: Googles Hints on how to ask questions, suggests that one eloberates and gives his take on the answer. The fact that you acknowledge perceiving both a question and an answer, belies your claim that I bable on and said nothing. Could it be that I did not say what you wanted to hear? I personally would never think of defining you as a "CONTANKAROUS CONRRARIAN", but I certainly could not come to your reacue if I herd some one else calling you that. Churchill discribes you to a "T" as one of that breed of people who while walking down the street, stumbles over some facts, looks around to be sure no one is looking, picks himself up brushes himself off, and pretends that nothing happened. Sir Winston actually gives a name to such a person. You may want to research what Sir Winston said about you. Now redeam yourself, try to logically challenge my try at answering my own question. I am not even asking you to confute it...don't go to bed with all these facts soiling your conscience. You did not brush it all off, I know I used to try it myself before I recovered from being a LIB... |
Subject:
Re: WHICH JOHN, DID GREATER HARM TO OUR COUNTRY?
From: rai130-ga on 06 Aug 2004 06:06 PDT |
Don't forget that for many people their principles are far more important and loyalty-inducing than the flag under which they were born... Also, is staying in a country you believe to be heading down the wrong path and fighting against that path necessarily a bad thing? In the mid-late 1930s in Britain only a very small minority esposued rearmament against the wishes and desires of the rest of the country and, arguably, the world. With the benefit of hindsight we can now see that minority was in the right. Those who seem to be 'in-house' enemies now could be the nation's heroes in the future... I'm not saying I necessarily believe that in this particular situation but it is always worth remembering that only very infrequently in the history of mankind have things been as simple as good and bad. And another point... remember that other Texan president's oft-repeated comment on J. Edgar Hoover, "It?s probably better to have him inside the tent pissing out, than outside the tent pissing in". In other words, keep your friends close and your enemies even closer... |
Subject:
Re: WHICH JOHN, DID GREATER HARM TO OUR COUNTRY?
From: toughlover-ga on 06 Aug 2004 12:06 PDT |
Dear Dear RAI130, permit me to zing you right after I commend your juicy yet succinct response. I also note with glee, your keen awareness of GREY rather than the proverbial "BLACK or WHITE" situations that most extreamist thrive on. I often muse that the bane of the world are the pusillanimous nonentities who freeze when they have to choose between two "EVILS". Now here comes the zing: Your logic faltered when you employed the "wisdom" of the "keep your enemies closer" quote. Inthat the benefits of keeping one's enimies clocer, is so that you can monitor their every move, not to cherrish them. The crux of my argument though, is about the kind of enemy who hides behind the constitution and a false vail of being apeacemaker. The kind of enemy who has the ear and sentiments of the Fifth Column, AKA (The Fourth Estate)who is abel to whip up a propaganda frenzy against the government. With this kind of friend you don't want to hold him close, you want to ship him off to the moon. Regarding minority views being right, my argument was never that minority views cant be correct. Infact, despite my being a DEM, I observe that the GOP are more often right than wrong, yet they are a minority. Instead my argument is that a citizen who openly abandons his country to fight for another, does less harm to the abandoned contry, than one who fights for his country, then commits sedition afterwards. Barry Farber's Grandma would say: "cursed is the cow who gives a pail of milk then kicks it over afterwards". There is a season for everything under heaven, a time to criticize our government, a time to kick it out of office, and a time to bite your lips and wait til a war is over to take your constitutional turn. |
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