NEED RESEARCHER OR COMMENTER TO VIEW PHOTOS OF SELF STEERING UNIT AND
EXPLAIN OPERATING METHOD. PLYWOOD BASE BOLTS TO STAINLESS STEEL FRAME
FIXED TO TRANSOM. SOME OPERATING PARTS MAY BE MISSING. UNIT IS HOME
MADE SO IT IS POSSIBLE THAT BUILDER WILL RECOGNISE OWN WORK. PHOTOS AT
http://photobucket.com/albums/V432/pugwashjw

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Clarification of Question by pugwashjw-ga on 09 Aug 2004 01:18 PDT

URL for viewing six photos is now viewable , I hope, by Google
commenters. thanks for being patient. Pug.

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Clarification of Question by pugwashjw-ga on 09 Aug 2004 05:51 PDT

After much investigation, I have been advised to post this new tag so
commenters can comment

<img src=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v432/pugwashjw/sailing%20self%20steeringSELFSTEER1.jpg">

complicated, `aint it!

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Request for Question Clarification by omnivorous-ga on 09 Aug 2004 07:10 PDT

Pugwashjw --

I tried the URL immediately above and it's not working for me either.

Best regards,

O.

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Clarification of Question by pugwashjw-ga on 10 Aug 2004 01:40 PDT

FOR OMNI...I`m still trying to sort out this difficult site. Their
management know what problems I am having. According to them, the
original URL should work and that any public should be able to click
and view. I tried it and came up with a page requesting log on. Maybe
try viewing albums and the issued rego number v432 and username. I`ll
keep on trying???

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Request for Question Clarification by mathtalk-ga on 10 Aug 2004 06:45 PDT

I was able to navigate to the images by going to:

http://www.photobucket.com/

and entering "pugwashjw" (without quotes) into the Go To Album search field.

The URL shown is identical to the one that pugwashjw-ga initially
posted, except for the lowercase v after the "albums" node, but I
don't think that matters.  I think the problem is a "referrer" check,
ie. that they block links to the album as a whole from external sites.

In any case I can see there are six images.  I'll post a direct link
to one of them, in case that will work (where linking to the album as
a whole may not).

http://photobucket.com/albums/v432/pugwashjw/sailing%20self%20steering/?action=view&current=SELFSTEER5.jpg

regards, mathtalk-ga

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Clarification of Question by pugwashjw-ga on 10 Aug 2004 06:54 PDT

for Omni  AND OTHERS...I THINK I HAVE IT. CLICK ON THE BASIC URL..
http://photobucket.com . when that comes up, type in  pugwashjw in the
box 'go to album', click 'go', click 'sailing self steering'. six
photos to view to establish engineering principle??

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Request for Question Clarification by omnivorous-ga on 10 Aug 2004 07:37 PDT

Pugwashjw --

Chip's (Mathtalk's) link makes the image appear with the hyperlink. 
Thanks to both of you for sticking with it.

This appears to be a wind-powered self-steering unit, corrrect?  Is
there a larger panel area for the self-steering (the wind-resistance
portion)?  These self-steering units are intended for long passages
and work without power.  As long as the the wind is consistent and
from the same direction, they hold the same course.  If the wind
shifts gradually (e.g., Set a course of 270 degrees with the wind from
the south.  Wind shifts during the night to SW or 225 degrees --
you'll now be heading NW or 315 degrees, instead of westerly.)

In the trade wind areas, winds can be consistent in direction for
periods of time.  In areas with frontal systms moving through, the
consistency and intensity of winds can vary.  I'm not sure at what
levels of wind -- or more correctly "apparent wind" on a sailboat --
these self-steering units will work but it's probably above about 8
knots of real wind or 12-14 knots of apparent wind.

Quality of the steering is also strongly affected by the gearing.
Keeping the gearing clean, adjusted and well-oiled in a saltwater
environment is critical.

What else would you like to know Pugwashjw?

Best regards,

Omnivorous-GA

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Request for Question Clarification by omnivorous-ga on 10 Aug 2004 07:44 PDT

Here's a picture of such a self-steering unit at work, this one
mounted above the transom (yours clearly mounts on the transom or
another heavy base).  It's using a canvas panel in the same location
as the white steel plate of your self-steering unit.  The one in this
image is for a smaller boat -- probably 23' or less:
http://www.backyardpublisher.com/Bemini%20Background.gif

Your self-steering unit is probably for a larger boat, judging by the
construction.  The metal plate is there to provide some mass to move a
larger rudder.  It is possible that it can also attach a larger area
of canvas to trap the wind more effectively.

Best regards,

Omnivorous-GA

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Request for Question Clarification by omnivorous-ga on 10 Aug 2004 08:38 PDT

Pugwashjw --

I realized that the weather vane portion of your self-steering unit is
likely made of plywood, something that you'd mentioned at the top. 
That makes a bit more sense, in that it provides a lighter-weight vane
for the wind to work on.

Otherwise the comments remain the same.  Can we help the cause here by
showing you some articles about these self-steering units at work?

Best regards,

Omnivorous-GA

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Clarification of Question by pugwashjw-ga on 11 Aug 2004 06:56 PDT

Thanks, Omni for the reply. What you have set out is correct, but is
only the basics. The photo you sent shows a stainless frame with
canvas paddle. thats o.k. mine is plywood but was built for my boat,
although it could handle larger.  What I am asking is details of HOW
[???] the mechanism is set up and how it connects to the tiller. I am
aware of the general theory and the fact that on long trips, if the
wind varies, the paddle will respond to the change. On some models,
there is a secondary narrow rudder. the paddle affects this rudder and
it in turn supplies muscle to actuate the main rudder, via the tiller.
I suspect that on my gear, some component might be missing. I really
need a step by step guide to the operation of my particular unit by
someone who has used them before and can recognize any possible
construction faults or those possibly missing parts. When searching
the web, the only info. is from manufacturing companies who want to
sell their very good and very high priced self steerers. Thanks heaps
but I`ll leave the question open for a while. PW

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Clarification of Question by pugwashjw-ga on 11 Aug 2004 07:01 PDT

for Omni. PPS. Yes!, I would like to see any articles about the
operations of the units. thanks again PW.

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Clarification of Question by pugwashjw-ga on 13 Aug 2004 05:15 PDT

Hi Chipfo, Nice to get good comments on the boat. much appreciated.
Just had a look at your website and am very impressed. I`ll try and
load a couple more photos on Photobucket. And still seeking out
expertise on self steerers. PW

PW --

The URL isn't working, not even with www added.  And I do have cookies enabled.

The best reviews that I've seen of self-steering units have been in
Practical Sailor:
http://www.practical-sailor.com/

Best regards,

Omnivorous-GA

Thanks Omni. When I access the URL direct, it works, but the same URL
through google, does not. And I do not know why.. Will ask the google
team. Try typing the same URL into internet explorer and see what you
get. Pug.

PW --

Nothing seems to work on the photobucket.com site -- I even followed
their instructions and tried http://img.photobucket.com as the root
directory.

Lots of the self-steering/autopilot reviews that I've read have dealt
with the issue of motor life.  There's a big difference between
weekend/casual use and the use on a tran-oceanic cruise.

I've had both airplane and sailboat autopilots and know that there's a
lot to be learned from usage.  Neither are produced in the kind of
volume that you see in an automotive cruise control, so little things
(like adjustments for balance or gear strain) make a big difference.

Best regards,

Omnivorous-GA

for Omni. The link to Photobucket should now work. Had to contact them
, who advised making the URL available to the public...you know...tick
the box. Hope it works now. PW. And thanks for all the info.

problem of photos solved..see the clarification posted. still need an answer

A twin keel, cool! I don't know much about self steering units but I
have a 22 ft. Westerly Nomad, it is also a twin keel boat. It was a
boat in need of some desperate attention and I gave it to her, if you
would like to see the restoration just for kicks you can see it at
http://www.geocities.com/mywesterly. Yours looks like a 22 ft also,
what make is it, I don't recognize it? I also have a Hobie 18 Magnum
(with wings), I have a lot of fun on it also and race it for fun. Oh
well, hope you have lots of good times on yours!

Can't access the pictures, but have studied self-steering mechanisms
for sailboats and had trouble understanding how they work until
finally the light bulb went on.  Not sure if this is what you are
looking for, but thought I would throw my 2 cents in:

The wind vane does not directly steer the boat (as was mentioned, "not
enough muscle there"), but with the boat on course and sails properly
set for that course, the wind vane is set to neutral with the wind so
there is no force on the vane.  Now if the wind shifts, or the boat
waunders off course, the wind vane is no longer in a neutral
orientation with the wind and so the force of the wind acts on the
vane pushing the top downward (in a direction away from the wind). 
Through a series of levers and slides, this rotating of the wind vane
causes the lower paddle (in the water) to rotate so that the paddle is
no longer "neutral" in regards to the flow of water (boat is moving). 
This causes the arm attached to the paddle to swing from the force of
the water flow against the "out of neutral" paddle.  Connected to the
other end of the arm (upper end) is a control line that through a
system of pulleys move the tiller in the appropriate direction.  This
caused the boat to steer back to its original angle with the wind thus
allowing the vane and ergo the paddle to return to a neutral
orientation causing the tiller to go back to amidship and the boat
continues on a straight course again.

Hi Saltyjoe, Just got a notification from  GA management that you had
made a comment. What you have just explained answers my dilemma. None
of the so called professional experts were willing to tell me the
basics. Just to sell me their expensive units. I had to cancel the
photos off Photobucket due to the time limit. Thanks for your effort.
Pug.