Someone said, "A man thinks with his head, but a woman with her
uterus." (This may not be anexact phrase.)
Questions:
Who said this? What is the source? According to my research, it may
have said by Hippocrates or Plato, but I may be wrong. Please find out
exactly who said this phrase and give the hard evidence = complete
citation information to support your answer. |
Request for Question Clarification by
pafalafa-ga
on
05 Aug 2004 18:38 PDT
Hello madison1166-ga,
Very nice to see you back at Google Answers. I look forward to
(hopefully) being able to answer this question for you, as I did your
previous one.
I believe the roots of the sentiment in your quote do, indeed, hark
back to Plato, who tended to speak in lengthy paragraphs, rather than
in pithy quotes. The English word "hysteria" is generally thought to
have its origins in the Greek word for uterus or womb, and reflects
the notion that a woman's mental/psychic well-being is tied to the
vagaries of her reproductive organs much more so than to her mental
abilities.
Probably the most relvant, and oft-cited passage of Plato's on this
topic is this one:
==========
These each man should follow, and by learning the harmonies and
revolutions of the universe, should correct the courses of the head
which were corrupted at our birth, and should assimilate the thinking
being to the thought, renewing his original nature, so that having
assimilated them he may attain to that best life which the gods have
set before mankind, both for the present and the future....
Wherefore also in men the organ of generation becoming rebellious and
masterful, like an animal disobedient to reason...the same is the case
with the so-called womb or matrix of women. The animal within them is
desirous of procreating children, and when remaining unfruitful long
beyond its proper time, gets discontented and angry, and wandering in
every direction through the body, closes up the passages of the
breath, and, by obstructing respiration, drives them to extremity,
causing all varieties of disease, until at length the desire and love
of the man and the woman, bringing them together and as it were
plucking the fruit from the tree, sow in the womb, as in a field,
animals unseen by reason of their smallness and without form; these
again are separated and matured within; they are then finally brought
out into the light, and thus the generation of animals is
completed....Thus were created women and the female sex in general.
==========
I suppose there are many ways to interpret a text such as this, but I
take from it a message very much along the lines of your "quote" --
men achieve self-mastery with their heads, while women need to make
babies in order to stay calm and collected in their own lives.
Does this look at all like the material you need? If so, I will be
more than happy to post the full citation for the excerpt as an answer
to your question.
Looking forward to hearing back from you.
pafalafa-ga
|
Clarification of Question by
madison1166-ga
on
05 Aug 2004 19:48 PDT
Thank you for your question. Yes, I am expecting a genius like you can help me
just like you did last time. I have been looking for the answer for
quite some time using all kinds of reference materials I can generate
-- No luck. Many people say many different things -- Plato,
Hippocrates, ???
Well, I would like to have a passage that is quite similar, if not
exactly the same as, to the quotation I used in my question.
|
Request for Question Clarification by
pafalafa-ga
on
05 Aug 2004 20:31 PDT
Genius?!?! Hah! Maybe I'll change my name to platolafa-ga.
I'll keep looking to see what (if anything) turns up.
In the mean time, does this site have any meaning to you...?
http://www.rdg.ac.uk/StUnion/Anime/document/flcl1.htm
Have a look at the very last few lines that begin with: Next Episode: Haruko
|
Clarification of Question by
madison1166-ga
on
06 Aug 2004 00:02 PDT
http://www.rdg.ac.uk/StUnion/Anime/document/flcl1.htm
Thank you. Yes, one reference librarian taught me this site.
Yes, it is a common saying in Japapan, but nobody knows where it originally
came from. Hmmmmm.
|
Request for Question Clarification by
pafalafa-ga
on
06 Aug 2004 08:42 PDT
Closest I've come thus far is Simone de Beauvoir:
"But people in our society really do believe that a woman thinks with
her uterus -- what low-mindedness, really!"
I'll keep looking.
paf
|
Request for Question Clarification by
adiloren-ga
on
13 Aug 2004 13:57 PDT
I don't think it was Plato. Here is a quote from the Republic that
seems to the contrary:
"And if, I said, the male and female sex appear to differ in their
fitness for any art or pursuit, we should say that such pursuit or art
ought to be assigned to one or the other of them; but if the
difference consists only in women bearing and men begetting children,
this does not amount to a proof that a woman differs from a man in
respect of the sort of education she should receive; and we shall
therefore continue to maintain that our guardians and their wives
ought to have the same pursuits."
I have found an ancient thinker that held a similar belief (well
documented) to the one in the phrase you mention, but he doesn't seem
to have said anything matching up with that wording. Are you seeking
the person who is credited with saying that exact phrase (or close to
it) or are you more interested in finding the ancient thinker who
espoused that view? The language is fairly similar- but not close
enough to the exact wording of your phrase.
-Anthony
|
Request for Question Clarification by
adiloren-ga
on
13 Aug 2004 14:23 PDT
Hippocrates is credited with associating hysteria with the uterus.
?According to many writers, from the Hippocratics in the Classical age
of Greece to the physician Aretaios during the Roman empire, a woman's
womb was liable to detach itself from its regular home, and wander off
at will through her body. Such vagrancy naturally created a host of
unpleasant symptoms for the woman?. Future peregrinations of a similar
nature might be forestalled by keeping the woman pregnant, since a
pregnant uterus is a happy uterus (as far as the medical establishment
of antiquity was concerned), and a happy uterus has no reason to
roam.?
[The Wandering Womb by S.L. Ager, www.arts.uwaterloo.ca/CLASS/womb.htm]
|
Clarification of Question by
madison1166-ga
on
13 Aug 2004 14:25 PDT
Thank you very much for your question.
I am seeking the person who is credited with saying that exact phrase
(or close to it). I have the exact source where Simone de Beauvoir
used a similar
phrase, but Simone de Beauvoir did not coin this phrase. I am seeking
the original person who coined this phrase (or close to it).
This seems to be a tough question. No mail reference to various
libraries can solve this problem. I hope someone can help me.
|
Request for Question Clarification by
adiloren-ga
on
13 Aug 2004 14:51 PDT
This is interesting- from Plato's Timaeus:
"Wherefore also in men the organ of generation becoming rebellious and
masterful, like an animal disobedient to reason, and maddened with the
sting of lust, seeks to gain absolute sway; and the same is the case
with the so-called womb or matrix of women; the animal within them is
desirous of procreating children, and when remaining unfruitful long
beyond its proper time, gets discontented and angry, and wandering in
every direction through the body, closes up the passages of the
breath, and, by obstructing respiration, drives them to extremity,
causing all varieties of disease, until at length the desire and love
of the man and the woman, bringing them together and as it were
plucking the fruit from the tree, sow in the womb, as in a field,
animals unseen by reason of their smallness and without form; these
again are separated and matured within; they are then finally brought
out into the light, and thus the generation of animals is completed."
I suppose if the term "head" was used in contemporary slang- the above
quote would be pretty close. There are a lot of ancient Greek thinkers
that view the uterus as having some control over the mental and
physical state of women. One in particular has focused the most on the
function of biology on human behavior. I'll try and find a phrase
close to the one that you have introduced. Please feel free to provide
some direction in this search. How close do you require the saying to
be?
|
Clarification of Question by
madison1166-ga
on
13 Aug 2004 15:22 PDT
Thank you for your research. We are coming close, I hope.
How close? Hmmm. I would be delighted if you can find a single phrase
(just like an old saying) that includes key words: "uterus (or womb)",
"woman (or women)," "man (or men)," "head (or mind,). Thank you again
for your continuous effort.
|
Request for Question Clarification by
pafalafa-ga
on
14 Aug 2004 18:55 PDT
Hello again,
I have to confess that I've hit a wall with this one...I'm just not
sure where else to search.
I agree with some of the comments here (including an earlier one of my
own!) that the ancients didn't tend to write in soundbites...I doubt
that anything close to the exact phrasing you're after would be found
in texts older than, say, 300 years.
It might help if you could give us a bit more context. Why are you
lookng for this phrase? Where have you come across it? What leads
you to believe that Plato or one of his pals might have been the
ultimate source? And why isn't the Timaeus or Simone de Beauvoir
material adequate for your needs?
Anything else you can tell us might trigger a few neurons, and help
one of us provide an answer for you.
Wish us luck...!
pafalafa-ga
|
Request for Question Clarification by
adiloren-ga
on
14 Aug 2004 20:14 PDT
Sorry for the repeat on the Plato quote pafalafa- I forgot that you
had cited that above. Didn't mean to be redundant and complicate
matters.
I agree that the phrasing is not typical of the ancient style and
that, while it may be derived from an ancient source, the actual
phrase is likely more modern.
The thinker I was refering to earlier as having written much on human
biology and it's influence on both behavior and spiritual inclinations
is Plato's student Aristotle. I have searched through a lot of his
works, and while I have found very consistent contentions, I have
found nothing closely matching the wording of the original "quote". I
will continue to search and see what I can uncover.
Examples from Aristotle's "The Generation of Animals":
"As we said one can easily identify the causes of birth as the male
and the female, the male as the cause of change and development, the
female as the supplier of the material."
727b31-34
"It is clear, then, that the female's role in birth is the material
one, that this is to found in the menstrual emission and that the
menstrual emission is an excretion."
765b9-16
"The male and the female differ from each other in the possession of
an ability and in the lack of an ability. The male is able to concoct,
formulate and to ejaculate the sperm which contains the origin of the
form [of the being to be born]-I do not mean here the material element
out of which it is born resembling its parent but the initiating
formative principle whether it acts within itself or within another.
The female, on the other hand, is that which receives the seed but is
unable to formulate or to ejaculate it."
784a5-12
from: Aristotle; Generation of Animals, edited and translated by A. L.
Peck. London, 1953 (Loeb Classical Library) PA3611 .A73 1953.
|
