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Q: Debt Removal under federal law ( Answered 5 out of 5 stars,   1 Comment )
Question  
Subject: Debt Removal under federal law
Category: Business and Money > Finance
Asked by: mong00se-ga
List Price: $10.00
Posted: 04 Aug 2004 10:03 PDT
Expires: 03 Sep 2004 10:03 PDT
Question ID: 383439
I am interested in an organization called Debtzero listed under url 
www.pdegner.debtzero911.com and ITS claim it can legally remove all
depbt under a little used federal law.

Are their claims basically legal and honest.
Answer  
Subject: Re: Debt Removal under federal law
Answered By: pinkfreud-ga on 04 Aug 2004 12:14 PDT
Rated:5 out of 5 stars
 
Don't be deceived: this website and many similar sites are promoting a
scam that has become so widespread that several US government agencies
have issued warnings about it.

"Here?s how it works: For a stiff upfront fee -- sometimes $2,500 or
more -- you can get a certificate to take to your bank that supposedly
eliminates your obligation to repay your mortgage, credit cards or
other debt...

Spread via Web sites, e-mail and those ubiquitous hotel ballroom
seminars, these scams have proliferated to the point that the Federal
Reserve Board and the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency, which
regulates the national banks, have sent out alerts to the banks they
regulate. The warnings tell banks not only to be on guard against this
scam but also to confiscate any documents that the borrower presents
and send a suspicious activity report to the FBI -- the same kind of
report used to alert the bureau to information about possible
terrorists, money launderers and other criminals."
 
MSN Money: Watch out for debt-elimination scams
http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/SavingandDebt/P80462.asp

From an FBI warning issued last Christmas:

"Beware of scams like these...

Debt or mortgage elimination offers. The perpetrators of these schemes
offer to take advantage of 'loopholes in the system' that will
eliminate your entire mortgage for an up-front fee. Don't believe it.
There are no loopholes."

Federal Bureau of Investigation: Fraud Alert
http://www.fbi.gov/page2/dec03/fraud120803.htm

"Debt-elimination companies claim that they can eliminate your debt
and that you do not have to make any more payments with no
repercussions. Sounds good, huh? Too good! The bottom line alleged by
these companies is that the debt that you have incurred using credit
cards is not legal debt. The murky debt-elimination process is said to
be based on information from Title 15 United State Code -- section
1692, the Fair Debt Collections Practices Act -- section 1601, the
Fair Credit Billing Act and the Uniform Commercial Code -- section
203.

Debt-elimination companies, sometimes for a steep fee ($2,995 for one
company), will send you materials explaining what they assert is your
legal right not to pay your debt. Many of them promise to support your
debt-elimination process with "experts" that understand the laws that
pertain to credit card companies issuing you credit.

What is missing from the Web sites and advertising of these companies
is that if laws are in place that make it illegal for a credit card
company to extend you credit, why are there billions of credit cards
in circulation? If these debt-elimination companies have found out
that it is illegal for credit card companies to extend credit to
consumers, don't you think that it would have come to the attention of
lawmakers who would then enforce this law?"

BankRate: Beware bogus 'debt elimination' companies
http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/debt/20031212a1.asp

"Board staff has become aware of various illegal schemes being offered
to the public that purport to eliminate outstanding debt through the
use of specially prepared documents.  The organizers of these schemes
concoct specious legal documents based on the borrower's debt, which
are then presented to the borrower's bank, mortgage company, finance
company, or other lending institution in an attempt to satisfy the
debt. The scams are reminiscent of the tax protesters' tax evasion
schemes seen throughout the 1990s.

The purported legal documents used in the current scams include fake
financial instruments that claim to eliminate the borrower's debt
obligation...

These schemes are proliferating on the Internet, and the organizers
are charging borrowers substantial up-front fees and commissions based
on the total amount of debt that can be forgiven. Members of the
public are being harmed as borrowers generally pay significant amounts
of money without eliminating or reducing their overall debt
obligations - which of course is not in fact possible through any of
these programs."

Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System
http://www.federalreserve.gov/boarddocs/SRLETTERS/2004/sr0403.htm

"ALERT from the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency. 

 Subject: Illegal Financial Activity
 Description: Fictitious Debt Elimination Schemes 

 Date: October 1, 2003...

RE: Debt Elimination Schemes using Fictitious or Worthless Bonds, Due
Bills and Bills of Exchange

Please be advised that worthless instruments entitled 'Bond for
Discharge of Debt', 'Bill of Exchange,' 'Due Bill,' 'Redemption
Certificate,' or other similarly titled documents continue to be
presented to financial institutions, mortgage companies, credit card
issuers, and retail establishments throughout the United States in an
effort to eliminate legitimate debts. Many of these schemes are
premised on baseless or fraudulent claims against the United States
Treasury, the Secretary of the Treasury, the Office of the Comptroller
of the Currency, the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System,
the Internal Revenue Service, or other federal or state agencies...
 
Regardless of how such instruments or documents are titled or whether
they appear authentic, they are worthless, have no legal validity, and
are not payable through the United States Treasury, the Secretary of
the Treasury, the Comptroller of the Currency, or any other federal or
state agency."

Judd McIlvain - TroubleShooter: Scam Alert
http://www.troubleshooterjudd.com/scam/scam_mortgagescam.html 

"Customers pay an upfront fee of about 10 percent of their total debt
to receive advice and materials that explain how to use loopholes to
get out of paying their obligations...

But most of these companies are frauds, said William Kerr, a national
bank examiner with the U.S. Office of Comptroller of the Currency.

'The concept they are using is not valid and has no basis in fact or
finance,' Kerr said. 'It's basically an upfront-fee scheme.'

Kerr said he is unaware of any individual who has successfully gotten
their debts eliminated by using this process against a creditor."

Honolulu Star Bulletin: Debt-reduction offers attract state inquiry
http://starbulletin.com/2003/12/18/news/story3.html

"If an Internet site or other advertisement offers to sell you a
document you can use to 'legally' eliminate an outstanding credit card
balance or other debt, don't believe it.

U.S. government and banking industry reports indicate a variety of
schemes on the Internet and elsewhere promoting programs that, for a
significant fee (sometimes thousands of dollars), fraudulently claim
to enable borrowers to stop payments on a debt simply by giving the
lender a specially-prepared document...

The bottom line: These documents are bogus and a waste of money. If
you come across this scam on the Internet or elsewhere, consider
reporting the details to the FBI."

WJRT: Consumer News-Debt relief scams
http://abclocal.go.com/wjrt/news/041204_CO_r2_debt_relief_scams.html

Google search strategy:

Google Web Search: "mortgage OR debt elimination" scam
://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=%22mortgage+OR+debt+elimination%22+scam

I hope this information is helpful. If anything is unclear, or if a
link doesn't work for you, please request clarification; I'll gladly
offer further assistance before you rate my answer.

Best regards,
pinkfreud
mong00se-ga rated this answer:5 out of 5 stars
Thank you very much,   lots of great detail, links, and very fast.

Comments  
Subject: Re: Debt Removal under federal law
From: slipfree-ga on 25 Jul 2005 19:46 PDT
 
Since all debt is based upon our present tax structure, which means
taxes have to be collected to balance this out of control debt which
is being originated by means of a "fiat" monetary lending system.

So quess why the "government" agencies are quick to make negative
statements which are usually just redundant gibberish.  False
documents being filed..worthless bill of exchanges, etc..  Where the
real fraud is involved in the fraudulent documents the lending
institutions are generating each and everyday. It is called
"converting loan fees into "principal" times "0".

Some other legal terms for these acts are "fictitious consideration" -
"fraud against equity" - "constructive fraud" - "failure of
consideration" these are only a few of the usually 28 to 32 violations
which a trained legal/financial specialist came easily point out. 
Many of these violations are "money laundering" RICO violations.

No, nobody wants to talk about the true, only scare and intimidation
tactics.  It really should not be so surprising though, becaue
discourage feeds the collections and lending systems.

The only others that try to negate the facts that some of the mortgage
elimination processes are in deed working fine, appear to be the
mortgage lenders, various real estate companies, audience starved
radio hosts, and a few local Better Business Bureau franchise owners.

As far as the idea of up-front fees?  These fees would be based upon
the fact that if the person had nothing invested, then they might drop
the whole program if one of the afore mentioned were successful
scaring or discouraging them.  If they have money invested [which pays
legal fees/ court filings/ administrative workers, etc] then a scared
or intimidated client would be less likely to complete their process.

To address the price issues?  Just ask the BBB how much it would cost
you to use their logos and rapidly disappearing website imblems? 
Whow....if you have a small busines with just a few employees, it
could cost your several thousand dollars for this logo.  I have yet to
see how this ads much of a benefit to promoting a business, other than
keeping a data base about a business.  Any responsible information can
be obtained via your state agencies, Consumer Affairs, or the Federal
Trade Commission for free.

Just the monthly payments on some properties in question could far
surpass the 2 to 3 administrative fees.  I have yet to see any of the
sabatoge tactics being to try to "silence" the mortgage elimination
business that was based upon law?  So just look into the Bible or the
history books for references as to why no society has ever survived
for any reasonable length of time using "debt usury" and "fiat money."

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