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Q: Possible Nietzsche Quote re Ants on a Leaf ( No Answer,   8 Comments )
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Subject: Possible Nietzsche Quote re Ants on a Leaf
Category: Arts and Entertainment > Books and Literature
Asked by: nickgall-ga
List Price: $10.00
Posted: 16 Aug 2004 02:34 PDT
Expires: 15 Sep 2004 02:34 PDT
Question ID: 388430
I have a memory of reading a passage about a tower of ants on a leaf
that was swirling downstream towards something (destruction?). I
believe this image was supposed to be a metaphor for "civilization."

I'm pretty sure it was a quote from Nietzsche, but in my searches of
the web and "The Portable Nietzsche" I've come up empty.

I?m looking for the exact quote, and an accurate citation. A URL to a
web page containing the quote would be useful as well.
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There is no answer at this time.

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Subject: Re: Possible Nietzsche Quote re Ants on a Leaf
From: markj-ga on 16 Aug 2004 05:04 PDT
 
The only quote that I have found that is close in meaning to the one
you remember is from a relatively recent essay by William Sloane
Coffin, the social activist, pastor and Yale chaplain. But Coffin's
ants ("our society") are on a log, not a leaf, heading for a
waterfall, while we bicker with each other, and the briefly stated
metaphor does not include a "tower" image.
Subject: Re: Possible Nietzsche Quote re Ants on a Leaf
From: nickgall-ga on 16 Aug 2004 07:08 PDT
 
Interesting. I majored in Philosophy at Yale (Class of 1981). I don't
think William Sloane Coffin was chaplain at the time. Perhaps I read
Coffin's quote and time has transformed my memory of it. Then again,
perhaps Coffin read the same source I did and (mis)quoted it (or
suffered from cryptomnesia).

I'll wait to see what else comes in. If nothing else surfaces, your
answer may be the winner.
Subject: Re: Possible Nietzsche Quote re Ants on a Leaf
From: tutuzdad-ga on 16 Aug 2004 13:04 PDT
 
William Sloane Coffin served as chaplain of Yale University from 1958-1976.

tutuzdad-ga
Subject: Re: Possible Nietzsche Quote re Ants on a Leaf
From: nickgall-ga on 16 Aug 2004 13:27 PDT
 
Well I matriculated at Yale in 1976 so I guess I could have seen/heard/read him.
Subject: Re: Possible Nietzsche Quote re Ants on a Leaf
From: markj-ga on 16 Aug 2004 14:03 PDT
 
nickgall ---

I don't think I am going to be able to find a closer match to the
quote you are looking for, although another researcher may have better
luck.  Since I don't have enough information for an answer at this
point, I am going to give you (and other researchers) the link I have
in mind, because it may affect your ultimate judgment as to whether it
will be suitable for your purposes.

A review of a William Sloane Coffin book of essays called "The Heart
Is A Little Bit To The Left: Essays on Public Morality" quotes Coffin
as saying this in one of the essays:

"We are like 'ants on a log, arguing with each others as the log
approaches the waterfall.' He suggests that we must begin to ignore
trifles and be more generous in our spirit toward one another. We have
to believe absolutely in the relationship of all people to each
other."
Limerick Congregational Church:Book Review, by Walter Baily
http://www.limerickucc.com/bookreview/

The reviewer doesn't provide further context to the quote, nor does he
indicate whether Coffin provides a citation for the quoted language.
It is also a little disconcerting that the publication misspells
Coffin's middle name. The book was published in 1999, but it is a
collection of previously written essays, so you might indeed have read
the language during your Yale career.

More about the book is here:
Amazon.com: The Heart Is A Little To The Left
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0874519586/qid=1092689739/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-0356549-7527950?v=glance&s=books


I hope that this information is helpful to you and other researchers.

markj-ga
Subject: Re: Possible Nietzsche Quote re Ants on a Leaf
From: pinkfreud-ga on 16 Aug 2004 15:07 PDT
 
I'm certain that a country western song is NOT the ultimate source of
the quote you seek, but you might find this song, "Ants on a Log,"
amusing:

http://www.lyricscafe.com/t/travis_randy/travis12.html
Subject: Re: Possible Nietzsche Quote re Ants on a Leaf
From: nickgall-ga on 17 Aug 2004 01:56 PDT
 
markj-ga, Thanks for posting the full information about the quote.
Seeing it in context makes me quite certain that it is NOT the quote I
am thinking of. I have a distinct memory of the quote being quite
nihilistic in tone. I also recall that the quote I am thinking of used
the "tower of ants" metaphor to heighten the irony of thinking you are
creating a meaningful structure of lasting value (the tower) while the
whole enterprise in built upon a meaningless structure (the leaf in
the stream) of temporary value (heading towards oblivion).

The Sloane Coffin quote emphasizes that the ants are bickering, not
working together. Which, now that I think about it, makes it a pretty
poor metaphor since we don't typically characterize ants as arguing,
but just the opposite--they are "social insects". Many thanks for the
insight though.

I am curious how you found the quote, if you'd care to share that
information. I tried Googling many keyword combinations and didn't
come up with the Sloane Coffin quote.
Subject: Re: Possible Nietzsche Quote re Ants on a Leaf
From: markj-ga on 17 Aug 2004 04:38 PDT
 
nickgall --

Since Coffin was anything but a nihilist, I am not surprised that the
quote I found is not the one you remember.

As for my search strategy, there are many online references to the
common phrases "ants on a leaf" and, especially, "ants on a log"
(which is a popular snack as well as a handy metaphor).

After striking out with searches based on some of the exact words you
recall, I found the Coffin quote by both broadening the search with
the phrase "ants on a log" and narrowing it by using the word
"waterfall."  I figured that "ants on a log" was promising because it
is a much more common metaphor than "ants on a leaf," and a
"waterfall" comes to mind as an appropriate fate for the clueless
ants.  Here is a link to that search:

"ants on a leaf OR log" waterfall
://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=%22ants+on+a+leaf+OR+log%22++waterfall

By the way, I did find one other passing and unconfirmed reference in
someone's personal online vacation log to the possible use of the
metaphor by physicist Murray Gell-Mann, but I haven't been able to
confirm it.  Here is the reference:

"Well, my last day at work yesterday, they called in the building crew
and cleaned up the ponds. They were gleaming blue like a swimming pool
by the end of the day. Poor frogs, their whole civilization was wiped
out. It reminded me of something I read once, I think it was Murray
Gell-Mann the physicist that wrote it. He said we humans are so smug
and happy on our planet?the planet we're doing our best to take apart
as fast as we can. But actually we're kind of like a colony of ants
living on a log that's floating in a river. We pay so much attention
to ourselves and our one little log, but there's a waterfall a few
kilometers down the river that we may not even see coming until we go
over the edge."
http://home24.inet.tele.dk/case/slovi/index56.html


I found that one earlier on with this search:

ants "on a keaf OR log" civilzation
://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=%22ants+%22%22on+a+leaf+OR+log%22++civilization++

I am not hopeful of finding a better online version of the metaphor
for your purposes, but the question is an interesting one, so I may
give it another shot.  Maybe another researcher can come with it in
the meantime.

markj-ga

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