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Q: Correct wording vs. etiquette for numbers ( Answered,   2 Comments )
Question  
Subject: Correct wording vs. etiquette for numbers
Category: Reference, Education and News
Asked by: scribbledes-ga
List Price: $5.00
Posted: 16 Aug 2004 12:59 PDT
Expires: 15 Sep 2004 12:59 PDT
Question ID: 388653
I am writing a wedding invitation. The wedding etiquette for writing
the year suggests "two thousand and four." I thought that "and" stood
for the decimal point. I am more interested in being
mathematically/grammatically correct than wedding correct. What is the
right way to write the number "2004" in words?
Is there a different correct way if it is a year?

Clarification of Question by scribbledes-ga on 16 Aug 2004 16:36 PDT
Thanks for that!

I am willing to go wedding-y enough to write it in words, even though
that is really wrong, too.
However, since I am going to write it out...how? With or without
"and"? With or without punctuation.
Answer  
Subject: Re: Correct wording vs. etiquette for numbers
Answered By: markj-ga on 16 Aug 2004 17:04 PDT
 
scribbledes --

Although kriswrite'ga's comment is certainly correct with regard to
ordinary formal and informal writing, her point is a matter of style
and not grammar.  Indeed, you are also correct that it is standard
etiquette that formal invitations should spell out the year on the
invitation. But you knew that already.

I am confident that your grammatical concern about using "and" when
writing out 2004, for example, is unfounded.  I suspect that this
concern is based on the  correct notion that any numbers followed by a
decimal or fraction would have to be recited like this, using an "and"
for clarity:

2000.3  is spoken (or theoretically written) as "two thousand and
three tenths" (or "two thousand point three); and

2000 1/2  is spoken as "two thousand and one-half."


However, it does not follow that the use of "and" is incorrect when
used in writing out "2004" on a wedding (or other formal) invitation. 
And it certainly is not necessary for clarity.

Interestingly, a very respectable online encyclopedia indicates that
the use of "and" in reciting numbers is more common in England than in
the U.S.:

"When saying or writing out numbers, the British will put an "and"
before the last part, as in "one hundred and sixty-two" and "two
thousand and three", whereas Americans go with "one hundred,
sixty-two" and "two thousand, three". Americans also have a tendency
to read numbers like 1234 as "twelve thirty-four", which would be
"twelve hundred and thirty-four" or "one thousand, two hundred and
thirty-four" in Britain unless discussing the year 1234, when "twelve
thirty-four" would be the norm."

Internet Ecncyclopedia: American and British English Differences.
http://www.internet-encyclopedia.org/wiki.php?title=American_and_British_English_Differences


This preference for using the "and" by the British does not make in
ungrammatical in American English.  In fact, it may well tend to
explain the old practice in the U.S. of using the "and" in
"traditional" formal invitations.

You are already familiar with the preference for "and" in wedding
invitation etiquette.  That preference is reflected in an unscientific
comparison of two Google searches:

This search (without the "and") returns only 33 "hits":

"two thousand four" "wedding invitation"
://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&c2coff=1&q=%22two+thousand++four%22+%22+wedding+invitation%22


Add "and" to the search terms and you get 181 hits:

"two thousand and four" "wedding invitation"
://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&c2coff=1&q=%22two+thousand+and++four%22+%22+wedding+invitation%22&btnG=Search


The bottom line is that writing out 2004 is grammatical either with or
without an "and" but wedding etiquette appears to favor using the
"and" in writing out the date.


There also appears to be a pronounced preference to use the "and" in
writing out dates in formal invitations in general.  Compare the
following Google search results:

597 "hits" with the "and":
"two thousand and three" invitation
://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&c2coff=1&q=%22two+thousand+and++three%22+invitation+

Only 143 "hits" without the "and":
"two thousand three" invitation -hundred
://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&c2coff=1&q=%22two+thousand+three%22+invitation+-hundred


To sum up, I am confident that your uncertainty about the grammatical
correctness in using an "and" when writing out "2004" is traceable to
the fact that an "and" is required when fractions and decimals are
part of the number.  While an "and" is not necessary for clarity when
writing out "2004," it is clearly a correct option and indeed is
preferred by tradition under certain circumstances -- such as wedding
invitations -- and by the British in general.


Search Strategy:

My search strategy was explained as part of the body of my answer.



I hope and trust that this answer has been helpful to you.  If
anything is unclear, please ask for clarification before rating the
answer.

markj-ga
Comments  
Subject: Re: Correct wording vs. etiquette for numbers
From: kriswrite-ga on 16 Aug 2004 15:19 PDT
 
Hi scribbles~

The Chicago Manual of Style, which is probably the most widely used
usage book, states that years be noted in numbers, not words. All the
major style guides say the same.

Kriswrite
Subject: Re: Correct wording vs. etiquette for numbers
From: dhrm77-ga on 20 Aug 2004 07:17 PDT
 
You can also write it in roman numerals : MMIV
and see how many of them get it.. ;-)

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