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Q: Giangiacomo Feltrinelli quote in Italian ( No Answer,   10 Comments )
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Subject: Giangiacomo Feltrinelli quote in Italian
Category: Reference, Education and News > General Reference
Asked by: dorfgilk-ga
List Price: $4.00
Posted: 16 Aug 2004 18:25 PDT
Expires: 28 Aug 2004 22:13 PDT
Question ID: 388796
I would to know how this quote reads in the original Italian, it's by
a writer named Giangiacomo Feltrinelli in reference to Fidel Castro:

"I have mixed feelings about this man. He is a sort of Garibaldi,
utterly unsuited to government work, incapable of working, reasoning
and hard thinking. Impulsive, rhetorical. High-pitched. Ideologically
confused."

And I do not want a translation, I would like the original word for
word (I speak Italian myself)
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There is no answer at this time.

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Subject: Re: Giangiacomo Feltrinelli quote in Italian
From: pinkfreud-ga on 16 Aug 2004 21:03 PDT
 
I have found an Italian page that has a portion of your quote:

"Ho sbagliato su questo uomo. E' una specie di Garibaldi incapace di
governare, impulsivo, retorico, ideologicamente confuso, credo male
informato."

"Quando morì mio padre Feltrinelli" 
http://www.weblab900.it/db900/interpretazioni/Quando_mori_.htm

This is very similar to the quote you've posted, yet you'll note that
some phrases are missing. Is it possible that the person who
translated this into English has embellished it somewhat?
Subject: Re: Giangiacomo Feltrinelli quote in Italian
From: dorfgilk-ga on 16 Aug 2004 21:13 PDT
 
Possibly, bu I suspect it was translated in full. The quote you found
is good, but doesn't seem like the "high-italian" as the english quote
suggests it was translated from.
Subject: Re: Giangiacomo Feltrinelli quote in Italian
From: pinkfreud-ga on 16 Aug 2004 21:38 PDT
 
I hope another Researcher will be able to find the exact quote that you seek.
Subject: Re: Giangiacomo Feltrinelli quote in Italian
From: juggler-ga on 16 Aug 2004 23:51 PDT
 
I believe that Pinkfreud has correctly identified the Italian version
of the quotation.  It's presented on that page as a direct quotation,
and it's so similar that I have a hard time believing it's not the
right quotation.

Yes, a few bits are missing, but, as Pinkfreud suggests, the English
translation was probably an embellishment.  The only logical
alternative is that the Italian quotation is a paraphrase.  However,
most of the Italian quotation is clearly NOT a paraphrase but rather a
word-for-word translation.

"E' una specie di Garibaldi" = "He is a sort of Garibaldi."   How else
would you say that?

" impulsivo, retorico, ideologicamente confuso" = "Impulsive,
rhetorical... Ideologically confused."   Again, how else would you say
that?

It strikes me as unlikely that part of the Italian quotation would be
a paraphrase and part of it would be an exact quotation.  On the
contrary, it is likely that whole quotation that Pinkfreud located is
the original.
Subject: Re: Giangiacomo Feltrinelli quote in Italian
From: fp-ga on 17 Aug 2004 01:39 PDT
 
If I correctly understand the link provided by Pinkfreud this webpage
is a review of the book "Senior Service" by Carlo Feltrinelli, son of
Giangiacomo, as published in November 1999:

"CARLO Feltrinelli, figlio di Giangiacomo, ha scritto una biografia di
suo padre intitolata Senior Service"
http://www.weblab900.it/db900/interpretazioni/Quando_mori_.htm

More reviews are mentioned here:
http://www.alice.it/review/data/99/rs991124.htm

The book:
http://www.feltrinelli.it/foreign_rights/SchedaLibro?id_volume=1393688

Therefore, the original Italian edition of this book should include
the lines you are looking for, e.g.:
http://www.libreriauniversitaria.it/merchants/libreriauniversitaria/ita/offerta_libro.jsp?productID=605072
Subject: Re: Giangiacomo Feltrinelli quote in Italian
From: juggler-ga on 17 Aug 2004 02:13 PDT
 
fp,
Are you suggesting that you believe a different version of the Italian
quotation appears in "Senior Service"?  If so, what is your basis for
that belief?

"Ho sbagliato su questo uomo..." is a clearly a quotation from the
father, Giangiacomo, speaking about Castro.   Why would the quotation
be different in the book?
Subject: Re: Giangiacomo Feltrinelli quote in Italian
From: fp-ga on 17 Aug 2004 03:43 PDT
 
Juggler, I am not suggesting that a different version of the Italian
quotation appears in "Senior Service". I do have the impression that
the quotation found by Pinkfreud is the one in question.

However, despite the quotation marks, the English version or the
Italian review (or both) could be slightly altered. Simply to rule out
this possibility the easiest way of finding the exact wording would be
to have a look into the Italian book.

By the way, Dorfgilk, have you any idea when the English wording as
mentioned in your question was published (or broadcast)? Presumably,
not before November 1999?

A Dutch version (however, retranslated from German):
"een soort Garibaldi, absoluut ongeschikt voor het regeringswerk, niet
in staat tot enig denkwerk..."
http://www.xs4all.nl/~sjakoo/books/7810.htm

I suppose (probonopublico-ga could help) that "niet in staat tot enig
denkwerk" would somehow be a translation of "incapable of reasoning
and hard thinking".
Subject: Re: Giangiacomo Feltrinelli quote in Italian
From: probonopublico-ga on 17 Aug 2004 06:08 PDT
 
Wow, Freddy

My Dutch ain't that good!

But from the little I know, I would say that your translation is fantastisch.

All the Best

Bryan
]
Subject: Re: Giangiacomo Feltrinelli quote in Italian
From: dorfgilk-ga on 17 Aug 2004 08:20 PDT
 
Juggler, it may well be the translation; my reasoning for thinking it
is a paraphrase (I do) or just the son loosely remmebering the jist of
what the father said rather than being jotted verbatim is that
whomever translated it would have taken a lot of liberties to come up
with the English version they did from the quote pinkfreud gave me.

Most translators go for a focus on the style, or intention of the
writer, or opt for a strict, grammatical, translation. From Italian to
English, based on pinkfreud's quote this translator did neither: he
added the phrases high-pitched, incapable of working, and hard
thinking, which are a stretch of the original at best, and bordering
on outright lying and Feltrinelli's style, grammatically, is much
simpler.

It may be the correct translation, I'll wait to see if any more
submissions are forthcoming. If I accept it in the end, I'll do so
regrettably, as I am extremely disappointed in the translator and his
stretching of the original.

Btw, not sure when or where it was orinially posted, it came to me by
way of a friend . . . Thanks to all for your help.
Subject: Re: Giangiacomo Feltrinelli quote in Italian
From: fp-ga on 17 Aug 2004 12:34 PDT
 
Dorfgilk, apparently no need to be disappointed because of the translation:

John Florio Prize for Italian Translation ("awarded for the best
English translation of a full-length Italian work of literary merit
and general interest"):
2002, Runner-up: Alastair McEwan for his translation of Senior Service
by Carlo Feltrinelli (Granta):
http://www.englishpen.org/writersintranslation/prizes/uk/johnflorioprizeforitaliantrans/

UK title: Senior Service: A Story of Riches, Revolution and Violent Death 
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1862074569/qid%3D1092768428/026-5222747-2582015

US title: Feltrinelli: A Story of Riches, Revolution, and Violent Death.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0151005583/qid%3D1092768362/102-8137138-1516101

You may find the "search inside!" feature of amazon.com interesting:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0151005583/ref=sib_dp_pt/102-8137138-1516101#reader-link

Castro is mentioned in the index (but, understandably, not Garibaldi):
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0151005583/ref=sib_rdr_idx/102-8137138-1516101?%5Fencoding=UTF8&p=S09Y#reader-link


Are your sure that your English version is identical with McEwan's translation?
It may be worthwhile comparing McEwan's translation with the Italian
version as published in 1999?

Apparently, the translator of your English version did not add
"incapable of hard thinking" as the Dutch review refers to "niet in
staat tot enig denkwerk" as well.

I am sure Pinkfreud found the quote you were looking for. But this is
only a review of the book, not the book itself.

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