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Subject:
Accelerating Universe
Category: Science Asked by: karlnj1-ga List Price: $50.00 |
Posted:
18 Aug 2004 11:06 PDT
Expires: 17 Sep 2004 11:06 PDT Question ID: 389541 |
Could the accelerated expanding universe be as a result of the decay of matter into energy, and therefore as matter decays so does Gravity. As Gravity decays and the universe becomes larger the effect is that Gravity decays at an accelerated rate. The consequence is an ever expanding universe at an exceleraterd rate. At What point will the univers be expanding at greater than the speed of light? (ie time line) |
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There is no answer at this time. |
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Subject:
Re: Accelerating Universe
From: touf-ga on 18 Aug 2004 13:32 PDT |
Interesting theory... As for reaching the speed of light, technically, that is impossible. In order for something to be accelerated to the speed of light, it requires infinite energy. Before that happens, though, all the mass in the universe will have been converted to energy; meaning there would be no mass left, meaning there would be nothing left to accelerate to the speed of light, except for light itself. |
Subject:
Re: Accelerating Universe
From: neilzero-ga on 18 Aug 2004 18:47 PDT |
A presently accelerating expansion rate is a rather new theory, so it could fall into disfavor. My guess is only about 1% of the mass of the universe becomes photons or other energy per billion years, and a tiny amount of energy is becoming matter, so the matter will not fall to zero, as new matter will likely continue to form from energy. I suppose in a trillion years we could have a matter mass reduction of a trillion times. My guess is a net loss of mass contributes to the accelleration, but some other cause is dominate. It is generally agreed that the outer edge of the visable universe has been moving away from Earth at the speed of light for billions of years, and that the portion farther out are moving away faster than light speed. If so, there is no date. The visable universe will just shrink very slowly as the acceleration continues. Please refute, embellish or comment. Neil |
Subject:
Re: Accelerating Universe
From: burlysquid-ga on 19 Aug 2004 00:44 PDT |
Here is a nice recent article about how the universe is expanding at an ever greater rate: http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/space/05/18/dark.energy/index.html As far as your idea goes however, given that the recent evidence shows that 6 billion years ago there was a shift from decelerating expanding to accelerating expanding, I would assume there are more forces at work than we even understand. One of these is dark energy, the force that pushes galaxies away from each other. Gravity holds them close together. It seems that dark energy is stronger, since the universe is expanding, not contracting. We do not understand the nature if dark energy, but it would seem to me that it would work on a similar proximity principle. That is, proximity dictates the strength of the force. If this is the case, then we will accelerate through the cosmos until the universe is so spread out that dark energy can no longer push us apart. (nor could gravity pull us back together) As for celestial bodies reaching the speed of light; unless dark energy is everywhere, and is infinite (very doubtful), and can transmit force through enormous distances, it would not be possible. -Burly |
Subject:
Re: Accelerating Universe
From: karlnj1-ga on 19 Aug 2004 05:10 PDT |
Let me embellish for Neil. What is your guess based on, when you say 1% of the universe is converted to Photons per Billion years? And what mechanism is responsible for creating matter? Remember, that as the volume of the universe becomes greater, the effect of Gravity becomes exponentially less. In effect gravity acceleratorates negatively, adding to this, the loss of matter, the cumulative effect is clear. I?m troubled though by the concept that as the expanding front approaches the speed of light the mass of the front becomes infinite, gravity becomes infinite and the dimension becomes ?0? with singularity as its depth. As these plains from multiple universes intersect, at the point of intersection new universe are born and the process continues. Last, is this the infamous Neil that I know? Karl |
Subject:
Re: Accelerating Universe
From: hedgie-ga on 19 Aug 2004 22:01 PDT |
Karl - seriously - how can anyone , but Neil himself, say if "Last, is this the infamous Neil that I know?" But, if you tell us about the Neil you know ... we can make some guesses. BTW - you do not have to worry about the fronts, .. intersecting ... sucking in all the energy.... According to the [search term] cosmological principle http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmo_02.htm life at the front is same, as life here 'at the center ???' (according to folks who have been there :-) The current theory (accelerating ir not) is that anywhere you look you see the same thing namely the remote objects moving away the remoter, the faster but if you would 'go there' - then objects near to your new place, would move slowly, and object far from you us - would move very fast away from you In principle: Speed is not a property of a given location or object, -- object move relative to other objects --- universe as a whole, has only an 'expansion rate' ... Neil? |
Subject:
Re: Accelerating Universe
From: pancho12-ga on 20 Aug 2004 00:12 PDT |
relativity tells us that matter and energy are equivalent (recall E=mc^2), this means that energy also provides a gravitational field. so even if matter decays into energy there will still be gravitational fields. additionally, the presence of matter is like a frictional force in the expansion of the universe, the absence of matter would not cause the expansion to accelerate just not decelerate. it is true that the density of matter has to decrease in order for the 'dark energy' to become the dominant component forcing the expansion to accelerate, but the fact that the is expanding will already enforce this, since the density of vacuum energy does not decrease as the universe expands, but that of matter does. |
Subject:
Re: Accelerating Universe
From: karlnj1-ga on 20 Aug 2004 02:11 PDT |
Pancho 12 No one has measured a gravitatuibak field associated with energy. I have yet to see a tractor beam in real lifr only in Star Treck . Neil, let me elucidate for you. At the Wave front all mater has a dimension of singularity in the direction of travel. Moments before singularity happens there is a minor event where mass grows infinite perpendicular to the direction of flow. This is because the spread of the Wave front travels a greater distance and reaches the speed of light moments before it does in the direction of the wave. Even though the mass of the front is infinite it has no consequence because its world existed in a singularity plain and all Gravitation is perpendicular to the direction of propagation. The steps repeat themselves over and over as the matter coming up from behind goes through the same steps... In effect at the point of reaching "c"the universe becomes an electromagnetic waves that now propagated in sheets of singularity through the rest of the universe. I repeat as these plains intesect their hidden dimensions of mass and Gravity are made evident again and the process continues. Karl |
Subject:
Re: Accelerating Universe
From: dorji-ga on 21 Aug 2004 10:03 PDT |
Present theories concerning the expansion of the universe, are based on the red shift spectroscopy. We know through Einstein's theories and experiments that mass bends light. Imagine the path that a light photon must journey to reach the earth so that we can measure it. It stands to reason that this photon must be traveling around in circles. So the red shift becomes an innappropriate tool for this measurement. Yet it is all we really have. This, if true nullifies both the boundary of the universe as we theorize and it's expansion rate. Maybe even refutes the big bang theory, in favor of the steady state theory. Bottom line, our measurement protocols are presently inadequate to answer this question. I do not believe the expansion of the universe is approaching the speed of light. I do, however believe that the light of the universe is traveling in circles before it reaches us. |
Subject:
Re: Accelerating Universe
From: hfleming-ga on 08 Sep 2004 23:33 PDT |
Not according to General Relativity. If matter (massive particles) decayed into energy (massless particles) then they would still have the same 'immediate' contribution to gravity and gravity would not decay. General Relativity is a proportionality between a particular space-time curvature tensor and a tensor comprised of stress, energy, and momentum. (In this case the tensors are rank 2 and thus very much like matrices) The stress-energy-momentum tensor does not care what form the energy takes persay. Both matter and energy will bend space time. A massless particle and a massive particle both have energy and momentum. It has been verified with observational evidence that kinetic energy does infact bend spacetime. What does change is how fast the stuff can move around (massless particles must move at the speed of light and massive particles cannot) and the interrelationship between the stuff and itself (You wouldn't think of light as having interaction with itself, but you would for a gas). So the answer to your question is that matter decaying into energy will not decay gravity but it will change the cosmology of the universe. |
Subject:
Re: Accelerating Universe
From: dep-ga on 09 Sep 2004 07:06 PDT |
How about this: If space is curved in however many dimensions, then picture the Big Bang as occurring at a point on a sphere. As the universe expands, it gets larger and larger as it covers the surface of the sphere, and gravity causes the expansion to slow down, as expected. At some point, the universe would cover half of the sphere. As it continues to expand, it begins to cover the other half of the sphere, and even though it continues to get "larger," the mass in the universe actually starts to move closer together, eventually coming together at the opposite pole. During this second half of the expansion, normal gravity would cause the expansion to accelerate, which is what we see now. |
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