I have a need for a data projector that has the following qualities.

1: Can be ceiling mounted.
2: Has an integrated Windows "thin client" that supports ICA and RDP.
3: Has a wireless mouse and keyboard.
4: Has an integrated 10/100mbps network card.
5: Is available for purchase in or to Australia.
6: Has a warranty supported within Australia.

I would rather a "known brand" solution, but if that is not possible,
then whatever you can get.

---

Request for Question Clarification by voyager-ga on 15 Jul 2002 02:23 PDT

Hi tallackn!

I looked at your requirements and wondered why you would want a setup
like this that artificially limits the usability of your projector and
would make it more expensive for no immediately obvious reason.

What do you think about a setup like:

1. Ceiling mounted projector with a network card (could e.g. also be
wifi)
2. "normal" PC somewhere else in the room (could also be a thin
client) attached to the network, too.
3. Wireless keyboard and mouse working with the PC

That way you'd have a solution made up of standard components that's
available everywhere and easy to upgrade and support. It is also
totally networked and not "visible" either.

Obvious advantages:
1. You would gain access to more standard components that would
probably not work with your thin client projector.
2. Hardware upgrades to your system are easy and much cheaper than
having to work with such a highly integrated solution.
3. Software upgrades are a fairly standard procedure (only requiring
widely available software and - more importantly - drivers). I'm just
playing through scenarios in my head of the problems that might occur
upgrading you Windows thin client...(probably WindowsCE based)
4. Less dependancy on the manufacturer.
5. Less components in a single device that might malfunction.
6. More flexibility in choosing your OS client side.
7. More options concerning the presentation software you're using and
the amount of data you require.
8. If you use a laptop as your "base station" you even can have all
these advantages in a portable form.
9. You could even use more than one projector with this solution.

If you have a very special reason why you need exactly the solution
you asked for then my points are useless of course. If not, I can
suggest a few solutions on that basis.

voyager-ga

---

Clarification of Question by tallackn-ga on 15 Jul 2002 13:26 PDT

Voyager,

Yes, the solution you outlined is exactly the solution I put forward. 
However, the key point here is a non-servicable item.  Yes, it limits
the functionality of the projector, but this is not a problem.

To implement the "PC elsewhere" solution means the PC would have to
1:Have an OS license, and 2:Be supported.

The solution of a seperate thinclient elsewhere in the room would be
the obvious answer to that.  But, they wish to avoid un-necessary
cabling.  They said it was inconvenient to provide 1:A location for
the thinclient/PC, 2:Power and other sockets to the thinclient/PC, and
3:Seperate support agreement for the seperate items.

They want to just be able to put projectors on the ceiling of the
conference rooms with power and network cable running to it, and then
they can give all their presentations via a session on the existing
terminal servers using the wireless keyboard/mouse solution.

It seems you can get thinclients integrated into monitors and LCD
displays and many other things, I would have thought it obvious to
integrate one into a projector.

---

Request for Question Clarification by snapanswer-ga on 01 Aug 2002 20:34 PDT

I have found a recognized name brand projector.  It can have it's own
IP address, and can also plug-into a 10/100 network.  It is NOT a
Windows thin client.
- it can be ceiling mounted
- comes with a remote that has mouse functions
- Has integrated 10/100
- I'm not certain how to confirm if it's available in Australia, but,
I cannot imagine why not.  Do you typically have trouble getting
products in Australia?  If so, I'll research that point further.

Anyways, while it is not a Windows thin client, I think you would be
interested in this projector.  It's built-in application will support
Microsoft presentation files, and popular graphic file formats.  It
has a built-in file tool to download files from the network, or can be
accessed by a computer with a web browser from a remote or local
location on the network.  If it sounds like it will satisfy the needs
of this question, I can post links to the device and to articles about
it.

I just don't want to post it as the answer if it won't meet your
needs.  On the other hand, considering that I can't find any "thin
client" projectors, this might be perfect.

---

Clarification of Question by tallackn-ga on 01 Aug 2002 21:30 PDT

snapanswer,

Thank-you, but I am already aware of products such as what mention.

Unfortunatly, they are not the solution I am needing.  It really is
very important that the projector itself have a full featured
thinclient built into it so that a remote session can be established
with a terminal server.

I really dont understand why there appears to be no such product. 
They build thinclients into just about everything these days,
monitors, LCD dispalys.  It seemed that building one into a projector
would be an obvious choice.

So, sorry, thanks for your help, but no, the product you mentioned is
no good.  I really do need to have a thin client built into it at the
very least.

If anyone can find one with a thinclient built in, even if it does not
have remote keyboard and mouse, that would be suitable.  I could plug
a wireless keyboard and mouse into its interface ports to get the
desired result.

But it MUST have an intergrated thinclient.


Nathan...

Upon further research, it appears that this Sony projector does have a
Windows CE-based thin client.  I do not know if it natively supports
ICA and RDP, but, one of the articles I will point to below seems to
suggest it will support Windows CE software.  So hopefully this does
meet your needs.  It looks like an exciting piece of equipment.  Now,
without delay... the Net Projector from Sony, Model VPL-PX15.  I hope,
I hope, that this is a good find for you.  I have included an
Australian vendor.

Recently featured in a Microsoft .NET press release for "smart
devices", the Sony VPLPX15 has built-in networking support allowing it
to connect to the enterprise LAN wirelessly or via 10/100 ethernet
connection.  In addition it can create a peer-to-peer network with a
wireless laptop or computer when a network infrastructure is not
present.  The projector can have its own IP address and can be
controlled by any computer on the network via a web browser.  The
projector has its own operating system that will open Microsoft
PowerPoint and Excel files, as well as standard graphic files.

In addition:
 - It is ceiling mountable
 - It has a remote with mouse functions
 - It has USB support (perhaps allowing a wireless USB keyboard?)


Sony Complete Feature List for the VPL-PX15.
http://www.sonystyle.com/home/item.jsp?catid=6956&itemid=10696

An Australian source for the Sony VPL-PX15.
http://www.videopro.com.au/professional_display_systems.asp?action=ProductDet&ModNum=VPLPX15&SubClass=64

June 15, 2000, Projector Central article indicating the projector's
use of Windows CE, HP JetSend, and 802.11b protocols.
http://www.projectorcentral.com/news_story.cfm?news_id=198

January 7, 2002, Microsoft press release indicating the device uses
the Windows CE .NET operating system.
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/Press/2002/Jan02/01-07CustCommitPR.asp

Epson Network Projector EMP-8150.  I include here for your review,
though I don't see an indication that it has a built in Windows
client.
http://www.epson.com.au/products/corporate/emp8150.html

Search terms: microsoft network projector
://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=microsoft+network+projector

---

Request for Answer Clarification by tallackn-ga on 01 Aug 2002 22:31 PDT

snapanswer,

While this projector does look very advanced in its capabilities, I do
not believe it specifically has the ability to act as a thinclient. 
IE: Connect to a Windows Terminal server remote desktop session either
via ICA or RDP.

Specifically, I need the projector to have a thinclient, and support a
mouse and keyboard, if only via inbuilt mouse and keyboard ps/2 ports.

If I am mistaken, and this product does indeed have a terminal
services client integrated, please indicate the source of your
information indicating so.

Thanks,

Nathan...

---

Clarification of Answer by snapanswer-ga on 01 Aug 2002 22:48 PDT

Nathan, I will happily contact Sony and check.  I doubt I will find
information posted on the web, however, I will document the phone call
or email with Sony.  I'll also check with Microsoft if Sony is not
sure what a terminal session is.

If it is a compliant Windows CE device that supports ICA and RDP (I
think RDP is the important one for your Remote Desktop session) either
at the embedded ROM level or as installed software, is that an
acceptable answer?

Also, since I am uncertain that it has the old-style keyboard and
mouse ports, I will check to see if the provided USB interface is
supported for keyboard/mouse input, wirless or otherwise.

I am actually optimistic that the software will do what you want,
since it is part of Microsoft's Windows CE .NET operating platform.  I
have been operating under the impression that Windows CE has native
support for RDP.  We shall see.

Please let me know if there are additional questions I can ask the
various representatives to better clarify the answer.

---

Clarification of Answer by snapanswer-ga on 01 Aug 2002 23:21 PDT

Nathan, I am happy to keep checking if this does not answer the
question, but, I believe that I found the technical information you
have requested.  If questions linger, please do not hesitate to ask
for a further clarification.

According the information I will link to below from the Agoraquest web
site, the Sony projectors have:
 - Windows CE 3.0 ROM
 - 400 Mhz processor
 - 64MB on board, 64MB file storage
 - addition of Remote Desktop Protocol (RDP)

"Another new feature is the addition of Remote Desktop Protocol (RDP)
client software, an industry first, which enables anything displayed
on the screen of a computer desktop - including CAD files, MPEG movies
and custom-designed programs - to be sent to the projector over the
network and displayed."

Excerpt from the June 12, 2002 release "InfoComm 2002 Overview: Sony
Showcases far-reaching Network Display Solutions at InfoComm Expo"
http://www.agoraquest.com/print.php?sid=100

Search terms: sony Windows CE RDP
://www.google.com/search?q=sony+Windows+CE+RDP

[Note:  I believe that devices need to be Windows CE 4.1 in order to
be termed Windows CE .NET devices.  As this version of the Sony
projector is CE 3.0, I suppose the .NET version will have to wait
until next time.  However, RDP appears to be included in both 3.0 and
4.1 Windows CE devices.  Just wanted to clarify that, in case the
Microsoft press release cited earlier would lend itself to confusion.]

Please let me know if I can clarify further.

---

Request for Answer Clarification by tallackn-ga on 01 Aug 2002 23:22 PDT

snapanswer,

No, you seem to be ontop of it.  Good thinking about the USB
keyboard/mouse use.  Did not think of that.  If that will work, that
will be great.

Look forward to hearing back from you regarding the terminal services
client capability of the device.


Nathan...

---

Clarification of Answer by snapanswer-ga on 02 Aug 2002 09:46 PDT

I contacted Sony's Customer Information Services Center (CISC) at
877-350-3477.  Unfortunately, they could not provide any additional
details about the product specifications other than what we know from
the Sony web site.

I asked if it supported "terminal services" and they could not confirm
that.
I asked if it supported ICA and they could not confirm that.
I asked if they could confirm the version of Windows CE and they could
not confirm that.
I asked if you could connect a keyboard to the USB port and they could
not confirm that.

They suggested that these questions be posed to your Sony reseller,
who can have these questions researched by a "sustaining engineer."

With the Agoraquest description of RDP support in the projector from
an earlier clarification, it would seem that this is a thin client. 
However, perhaps the Australian vendor I linked to can have it
researched further.

I hope that helps.