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Q: Is new Info. on President Bush fake war ribbons true? ( Answered 4 out of 5 stars,   6 Comments )
Question  
Subject: Is new Info. on President Bush fake war ribbons true?
Category: Business and Money
Asked by: maluca-ga
List Price: $15.00
Posted: 03 Sep 2004 17:35 PDT
Expires: 03 Oct 2004 17:35 PDT
Question ID: 396630
The fact that he is wearing ribbons in a offical photo that he
supposedly did not "earn" was shown to me . Looks very real. Is this
accusation true? source I have. 
http://www.bluelemur.com/index.php?p=276
Answer  
Subject: Re: Is new Info. on President Bush fake war ribbons true?
Answered By: tutuzdad-ga on 05 Sep 2004 16:07 PDT
Rated:4 out of 5 stars
 
Dear maluca-ga 

Thank you for accepting my comment as an answer. I wish I could have
provided more conclusive evidence but perhaps more will come out about
this subject soon.

It was my pleasure to work with you and I look forward to next time.

regards;
tutuzdad-ga
maluca-ga rated this answer:4 out of 5 stars and gave an additional tip of: $10.00
The answer was well done. Thank you

Comments  
Subject: Re: Is new Info. on President Bush fake war ribbons true?
From: kriswrite-ga on 03 Sep 2004 19:38 PDT
 
Given that (as the article mentions) the dates don't match up and G.W.
clearly had no reason to be wearing such medals (even by his own
admission), it's quite possible this is faked. It would be easy enough
to do. I could not find the photo on George Bush senior's Presidential
Library website.

Kriswrite
Subject: Re: Is new Info. on President Bush fake war ribbons true?
From: maluca-ga on 03 Sep 2004 22:13 PDT
 
Kriswrite:

You are commenting as a Google Expert I assume. 1)This is a Official
photo and published in USA TODAY which is available on the site I
provided.it is also available on the site via a link in comment 43. 
2) The dates are very specific and do match the time he was in and the
time he would have had to have been in the unit to collect such a
ribbon. He was not in the military then. This is documented. 3) He was
wearing a ribbon and not a medal as my question clearly stated.  Given
the above how could this be faked? I hope its not true but given the
facts I took the time to research it looks pretty damning. The
question I posted with the source I provided was to be reviewed by
someone who was knowledgable and interested. Your comment was not
needed as I have learned other GE's avoid questions that appear to be
resolved. I do ask you why you commented and did not post as a answer?
Subject: Re: Is new Info. on President Bush fake war ribbons true?
From: maluca-ga on 03 Sep 2004 22:47 PDT
 
More regarding how authentic the photo is said to be after I inquired
AGAIN tonight.From The sites owner:

Sure ? Perhaps Google ?experts? should learn to use their own search
engine, from which we got the photograph posted on George H.W. Bush?s
Presidential Library Website:
http://bushlibrary.tamu.edu/photos/photos.php?file=HS502.jpg. And for
those who are saying we faked the photograph, this link has been
posted from the Raw Story front page for two days ? and this was
linked from the very top of this article. Could it not be more
obvious? Thanks for your query.

Now can we get back to the original question?
Subject: Re: Is new Info. on President Bush fake war ribbons true?
From: tutuzdad-ga on 04 Sep 2004 07:49 PDT
 
Dear maluca-ga;

The photograph does appear to be authentic as it is on display at the
Bush Library web site:

BUSH LIBRARY
http://bushlibrary.tamu.edu/photos/photos.php?file=HS502.jpg


According to this DD 214 (official summary of service at the time of
separation from the military) supposedly obtained by USATODAY, there
is no indication of any authorized decorations, medals or citations
awarded to George W. Bush (note the ?N/A? in this field which commonly
denotes ?not applicable? or ?none?)

USATODAY
http://www.usatoday.com/news/bushdocs/11-1_2004_Personnel_File.pdf
(Page 11, Line 24 of the document)

Page 6, Line 24 of his Military Discharge records as depicted here
indicate that Bush was awarded and authorized to wear ONLY a TAFMS
(Total Air Force Military Service) Ribbon and a TAFCS (Total Active
Federal Commission Service) Ribbon.

UNTITLED
http://img47.exs.cx/img47/2624/BushANG22-box24.gif
(Enlargement of the area in question)

DISCHARGE
http://www.usatoday.com/news/bushdocs/2-Discharge.pdf
(Allegedly a copy of the actual document)
	

This brief military biography said to have originated from the Bush
Administration also fails to mention the award:

UNTITLED
http://img38.exs.cx/img38/7273/Bio-2.jpg


President Bush?s military records can be seen here and there appears
to be no mention of the Air force Outstanding Unit Award:

President Bush's military records
http://www.usatoday.com/news/2004-02-14-bush-docs.htm

From what I can tell the Air force Outstanding Unit Award was in fact
awarded to 147th Fighter Intercept Group and the 111th Fighter
Intercept Squadron (Bush?s former units) in this manner:

147th Fighter Interceptor Group AFOUA 1 Oct 73-30 Sep 75 DAFSO GB 164/77 

111 Fighter Interceptor Squadron AFOUA 1 Oct 73-30 Sep 75 DAFSO GB 164/77

The award explicitly states that the units received the Air force
Outstanding Unit Award for the time period from October 1, 1973 to
September 30, 1975 but George W. Bush was actually discharged from the
111th FIS and the 147th FIG on October 1, 1973. Assuming his discharge
would technically have taken effect at midnight (between October 1st
to 2nd 1973) and he technically was departed from the unit JUST BEFORE
the first day the award went into effect, as such he would seem to be
excluded from those members who were authorized to wear it ? as
evidenced by the lack of mention of these awards in his military
records. On the other hand, if he were discharged ON the 1st of
October 1973 (the first day the award went into effect) then he WOULD
be authorized to wear the award.

AWOLBUSH.COM
http://www.awolbush.com/awards.asp

What it all boils down to, it appears, is what TIME Bush?s discharge
became effective and what time they were signed into effect by the
Commanding Officer (something we may never know for sure). Having that
that, there is indeed some valid question as to whether Bush is
authorized to wear the award, but the argument in favor is just as
credible as the damning evidence.

Not that this has anything at all to do with your question but I
happened to notice something (new to me) while researching your
question. According to this document, allegedly by his own admission
at his time of enlistment, George Bush was arrested for disorderly
conduct in December 1966 and this case was ?nolle prossed?, meaning
that it was not dismissed with prejudice but was simply not prosecuted
for whatever reason.

USATODAY
http://www.usatoday.com/news/bushdocs/11-1_2004_Personnel_File.pdf
(See document on page 15)

Since this does not make a case for either argument I am posting this
as a comment for the time being and I can repost it as an official
answer once you conclude that no other more accurate answer is
possible.

Just let me know.

Regards;
Tutuzdad-ga
Subject: Re: Is new Info. on President Bush fake war ribbons true?
From: maluca-ga on 04 Sep 2004 22:15 PDT
 
Tutuzdad:
This is largely correct, but what you?ve missed is that the photograph
could not have been taken after 1970. Also, that award could not have
been written until Oct 1, 1975 ? meaning he wouldn?t have actually
received it until then, and he?d left the Texas Guard in 1973 (and
actually stopped flying in 1972).Do you agree?
Subject: Re: Is new Info. on President Bush fake war ribbons true?
From: maluca-ga on 05 Sep 2004 14:32 PDT
 
I am going to consider this question well answered. Post as answer.

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