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Subject:
Math Question
Category: Science > Math Asked by: eddiet-ga List Price: $10.00 |
Posted:
07 Sep 2004 16:49 PDT
Expires: 07 Oct 2004 16:49 PDT Question ID: 398115 |
There is a math story that starts out, Two Jews on a Train going". By the end of the story, one of the gentlemen has figured out exactly where the other was coming from and other data more or less by using deductive reasoning. I DID NOT FIND THIS STORY IN ADAM BIRO's book. I would like to have the entire progression of thinking that goes on in this story. Eddie | |
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Subject:
Re: Math Question
Answered By: efn-ga on 09 Sep 2004 00:49 PDT |
Hi Eddie, I'm glad I was able to find the story you sought on this web page. http://www.nikhilkhade.com/articles/2004/4/448/ The same story appears on several other pages with very similar wording, usually classified as a Jewish joke. Unfortunately, I could not find the original source. The search terms that led me to the page were: two jews train deduction -biro Regards, --efn |
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Subject:
Re: Math Question
From: pinkfreud-ga on 07 Sep 2004 17:03 PDT |
This might be helpful: "I remembered an old Jewish story about two Jews on a train in Russia. One asks the other, ?Where are you going?? and the second replies, ?To Kiev.? Whereupon the first says, ?You liar, you tell me you are going to Kiev so I would think you are going to Odessa. But I know you are going to Kiev, so why do you lie??" - Ulam, S. M., Adventures of a Mathematician, Charles Scribner?s Sons, N.Y., 1976, p. 143. Let us generalize the reasoning of the first speaker in the story. Thought 1: ?If he says x1 it is because he wants me to think x2, but I know he really means x1.? Thought 2: ?But wait: he?s pretty smart. He knows that I will think Thought 1, and he will try to fool me. So I know that if he says x1 he really means x2.? Thought 3: ?But wait: he?s even smarter than that. H knows that I will think Thought 2, and he will try to fool me. So I know that if he says x1 he really means x1.? Thought 4: But wait: he?s even smarter than that. He knows...? This sequence suggests the following school examination: 1. Solve problem 2. 2. Solve problem 3. 3. Solve problem 4. . . . Given a sequence of Thoughts such as the above, is it meaningful to ask what the speaker?s best strategy is? Any answer you give is negated by the next Thought. We can say that, as with the example of the examination, that we are dealing with paradoxes arising from problems whose statements are never completed. The speaker assumes he is simulating perfectly the second person?s thoughts. (We remark in passing that he also assumes that intelligence implies the ability to duplicate another?s line of reasoning, and then to ?outwit? it. Thought (i) is always meta-Thought (i - 1).) It is interesting to speculate on what the speaker?s reasoning would be if he knew that his simulation of the second person?s thought were only correct some percent of the time. http://www.occampress.com/index_files/simparadox.pdf |
Subject:
Re: Math Question
From: pugwashjw-ga on 08 Sep 2004 01:23 PDT |
This seems to be a variation of the old story of the travelling salesman in the country who broke down, with a flat tyre and no spare,on a lonely back road, late at night. Far in the distance he saw a faint light. So off he goes to get some help. on the way he is thinking about what he might say to the farmer, it being so late, to convince the farmer to get out of his warm bed and lend him a jack. He imagined that when he arrived at the farmhouse, all would be in bed and all the lights out. Then he would knock on the door. The farmer, who had to get up very early next morning for his chores, would wake up and have to freeze getting to the front door. Then the salesman would say " I`m broken down and need to borrow a jack". The farmer would say " Why were you not more prepared for breakdowns when you travel in the country". The salesman would say " If it was`nt for me coming out to see you people, you would have to battle on without my handy goods". Then the farmer said " You know you have woken me from a nice sleep". And so on and on. By the time he got to the farmhouse, walked up to the door and reluctantly knocked. The farmer opened the bedroom window, and before he could say anything, the salesman said. YOU CAN KEEP YOUR @#^*&^%$$ JACK! ....There is always that tendency to imagine the worst in people. Happily, the opposite is true. |
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