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Q: How many MDs graduating in Europe ( Answered 5 out of 5 stars,   4 Comments )
Question  
Subject: How many MDs graduating in Europe
Category: Health > Medicine
Asked by: crystal4290-ga
List Price: $25.00
Posted: 09 Sep 2004 06:53 PDT
Expires: 09 Oct 2004 06:53 PDT
Question ID: 398836
I need to know approximately how many people graduate from medical
school each year in Europe.  Specifically, I need to know about
Germany, Italy, France and the UK.  The number does NOT need to be
exact.  It is OK if some of the countries data are from say 2001 and
then another country is from 1999.  I just need a pretty good
approximation.

If you find any other countries while doing the search, I am happy to pay a tip.

Request for Question Clarification by rainbow-ga on 09 Sep 2004 08:15 PDT
Hi crystal,

I was able to locate the number of medical school graduates for the
UK. Perhaps you would like to decrease the price of the question for
this information and then repost another question with the remaining
countries.

I can also provide you with the number of graduates for Canada (I
found this information during my search).

Waiting to hear your views.

Best regards,
Rainbow

Clarification of Question by crystal4290-ga on 09 Sep 2004 08:48 PDT
Thanks for the help!  Can you also find several of the other
countries?  Canada is interessting, but the ones that I need the MOST
are Germany, Italy and France.

Request for Question Clarification by rainbow-ga on 09 Sep 2004 08:55 PDT
Hi crystal,

I've searched further, and probably because of the language barriers,
I was not able to locate information on the remaining countries.

As I mentioned in my previous clarification, I suggest breaking this
question down into several questions (perhaps one country per
question). This way you will have a better chance of getting the
information you need.

Best regards,
Rainbow

Request for Question Clarification by rainbow-ga on 09 Sep 2004 10:01 PDT
Hi crystal,

During my final search, in addition to Canda and the UK, I have found
the numbers for the following countries:

Hungary
Czech Republic
Australia
India
Saudi Arabia

Unfortunately, I have not located the number of graduates for the
remaining countries you require.

Best regards,
Rainbow

Clarification of Question by crystal4290-ga on 09 Sep 2004 10:13 PDT
I am sorry, but those will not help.

Request for Question Clarification by markj-ga on 10 Sep 2004 09:34 PDT
crystal4290 --

I have discovered that some of the major European countries (including
France and Germany, and certainly others) limit to a specific number
the students allowed to enter their equivalent of medical schools in a
given year. For these countries this seems to be the main statistical
tool used in monitoring and regulating the supply of doctors in those
countries.

I have found a recent such number for France.  Since this number may
be expected to reasonably approximate the number of graduates per
year, would this information be sufficient for your purposes for
France and for other countries where such matriculation limits apply?

markj-ga

Clarification of Question by crystal4290-ga on 10 Sep 2004 09:58 PDT
Hi Mark,

So what you are telling me is that some European countries limit the
number of individuals that can enter medical school each year.  This
number would be fine, if I could have it for Germany, France and
Italy.  Also, if you see that there is a high number in the other
countries, that would also be most helpful and worthy of a tip.  I
would need to be assured that with the number that you give me, that
it includes all the medical schools in that country, and not just ONE
medical school.

Thank you!

Clarification of Question by crystal4290-ga on 10 Sep 2004 13:15 PDT
Mark,

Boy that is great to hear that you have all those countries!  I would
like to have that information and am happy to pay for it.  I will then
post another question for Italy and Germany.  Why are those so hard to
get?

Thanks?
Answer  
Subject: Re: How many MDs graduating in Europe
Answered By: markj-ga on 10 Sep 2004 19:51 PDT
Rated:5 out of 5 stars
 
crystal4290 --

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.  I "obsessed" for the better
part of the day about your question because I was certain that the
information you are looking for must be out there somewhere.

Well, just as I was about to take you up on your latest kind offer and
detail all the bits of information I rounded up about this European
country and that one, I found a single database that includes the
precise information you are looking for for every country in Europe.

The Web page is on the site of the World Health Organization.  Before
I give you that link and tell you how to navigate in it to get
information on the number of doctors graduating from medical schools
in a given year in any country in Europe, here is that information for
the countries you are particularly interested in:

Germany  -- 7013 (most recent year available is 2001)
Italy -- 6981 (most recent year available is 2002)
England and Northern Ireland  -- 3668 (most recent year available is
1992. See below for more current information.)
France -- 3586 -- (most recent year available is 2002)


Now, here is the link, and I will walk you through how to use it for
other European countries:
World Health Organization: Regional Office For Europe: European Health
For All Database
http://hfadb.who.dk/hfa/


There are many ways to play with this database, but the most useful
for your purposes would probably be the following:

1.  In the "Indicator Group" box, scroll to "Health Services;"

2.  In the "Indicator" box, scroll to "Physicians graduated in a given year;"

3.   In the "Gender" box, leave it at the default "Total" setting;

4.  In the "Start Year" box, I suggest that you scroll to an earlier
year (like 1970);

5.  In the "End Year" box, I suggest that you scroll to "2003"

6.  If you want to see the data only on a particular country, scroll
to it in the "Countries" box.  If you want to see data for a group of
countries, just ignore this box:

7.  In the "Country Group" box, pick a category if you want to see
data for a grouping of European countries instead of information on a
particular country;

8.  Then click "Submit Query;"

9.  From the menu of "Output Selection Screens," I suggest choosing  
"Indicator Overview" (click on the icon).  This will give you a table
of the physicians graduating in each of the countries in the group for
each year for which data is available between 1970 and 2003.  Other
formats for the display of the information are available on this page.


I understand that this is complicated, and I would be happy to
generate data for you on other individual countries in Europe or
otherwise assist you in accessing information on this database.  If
you would like me to do that for you, please just ask for
clarification of my answer.   If you are comfortable playing with this
database yourself, I expect that you can generate all sorts of useful
information on your own.


Other Information:

I really don't want all of my earlier efforts to go to waste, so here
is a listing of the information I found for similar information for
non-European countries.  I have also included below non-WHO
information for the UK which is more current that the WHO database.
(Otherwise, the WHO is the best source for consistent and current
European data.) I hope you will find this list interesting:

In alphabetical order:

Algeria: 800-1000
"Medical schools have been graduating a large number of physicians:
800 to 1,000 annually in the first half of the 1980s, and even more in
the second half of that decade. Several thousand women are enrolled in
medical school. It is estimated that between 1990 and 1995 some 25,000
new doctors will graduate, the majority of whom will probably be
unable to find work in the public health sector." (1993)
Algeria -- Health and Welfare
http://www.country-data.com/cgi-bin/query/r-380.html 

Bahrain: 38 
"These prospective physicians, considering zero rate of attrition
among them, are expected to join the workforce once they complete
their training. They represent an average of 38 physicians every year
during the period 1998-2005." (2000)
Demand and supply of doctors and dentists in Bahrain, 1998-2005 
http://www.emro.who.int/Publications/EMHJ/0601/01.htm

Brazil: 9000 
"There is a trend led by the major schools of medicine to reduce the
number of new physicians, due to saturation of the market (9,000 new
doctors every year). " (2004)
Serono Symposia International
http://www.seronosymposia.org/cmeworld/cmeworld.ihtml

Burma: 1000 
"Four medical institutions, one of which is attached to the defence
ministry, turn out about 1,000 new doctors every year after a
seven-year training programme that includes one year at a hospital."
(1994)
Doctors In Burma
http://www.ibiblio.org/obl/reg.burma/archives/199410/msg00037.html
 

Canada: 1600
"While there is a need for at least 2,000 graduates a year, the
country?s medical schools are producing fewer than 1,600 new doctors,
only about 1,388 of whom will stay in Canada." (June 1999)
Fraser Forum: The Doctor Shortage
http://oldfraser.lexi.net/publications/forum/1999/06/06_doctor_shortage_part1.html


Cuba: 3000-4000
"There were times when 6000 students enrolled at the medical school in
a single year. Today, 3000 to 4000 new doctors graduate every year."
(1998)
Speech By Fidel Castro
http://www.cuba.cu/gobierno/discursos/1998/ing/f211198i.html 


Ghana: 125
"Dr. Davis lamented that whilst Ghana produces about 125 doctors a
year the patient doctor ratio in Ghana is one of the worst in the
world." (year unknown)
Ghanaweb: News Archive
http://www.ghanaweb.com/GhanaHomePage/NewsArchive/artikel.php?ID=23455

India: 20,000 (some variation among sources -- this is in the most cited range)
"Today India produces around 20,000 doctors every year and these is a
clear trend of doctors moving to the semi-urban areas." (2004)
Rediff.com
http://www.rediff.com/money/2004/feb/06inter.htm

Indonesia: 3000
"Only half of the total of 3,000 new doctors who graduate each year
have sufficient skill to administer general anaesthesia." (1998)
World Anesthaesia: Indonesia
http://www.nda.ox.ac.uk/wfsa/html/wa02_01/wa02_012.htm

Israel: 350
"About 350 new doctors set up practices each year in Israel." (2004)
Canadian Jewish News
http://www.cjnews.com/viewarticle.asp?id=3902

Lebanon: 250
"Some 250 new doctors graduate from medical schools in Lebanon each
year, but net inward migration currently brings the total new doctor
registrations to 500-600 a year. " (1999)
World Bank: Lebanon
http://lnweb18.worldbank.org/mna/mena.nsf/0/38B6FFCBB21D279685256937005DEB9B?OpenDocument

New Zealand: 292 (2001)
Medical Council of New Zealand: Annual Report (Page 4)
http://www.mcnz.org.nz/newsandissues/AnnReport2001.pdf


South Africa: 1000 
"South Africa has eight medical schools and produces around 1000
graduates each year." (1997)
Production of Doctors in South Africa
http://www.hst.org.za/uploads/files/chap5_98.pdf


Thailand: 1000
"In this was, the 12 public and 1 private medical schools of Thailand
produce annually about 1000 new doctors." (1997?)
Family Medicine in Developing Countries (Google-cached copy)
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:MVMvXxx4WQkJ:www.med.tu.ac.th/AUNP/PDF/KICK_OFF_MEETING.pdf+medical+%22new+doctors%22+annually+germany&hl=en

UK: 4500-5000
"Each year we register about 10,500 new doctors in the United Kingdom.
About 4,500 to 5,000 of them are UK trained, that is less than 50 per
cent, the rest come from other parts of the world, including a very
large number, about 4,000 to 4,500, who come mainly from the Indian
sub-continent and other areas"  (2000)
Parliament: Examination of Witnesses
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199900/cmselect/cmhealth/299/0030205.htm

Zambia: 50
"The University of Zambia, the only one in the southern African
country with a medical school, produces just 50 doctors each year."
(2002)
Southern Africa Migration Project
http://www.queensu.ca/samp/migrationnews/2002/may/2.htm



Search Strategy:

I used dozens of Google searches with various combinations of such
search terms as "new doctors," "annually," "per year," "graduated,"
"produced," various country names, and many others.  This led to
information about yearly medical school graduates or first-year
students in many countries, but not in Germany or Italy.

It finally occurred to me to look for databases that might not turn up
in Google searches.  The two options that occurred to me were the
World Health Organization and the Organization for Economic
Cooperation and Development.  I struck gold with the website of the
European Regional Office of the WHO and found the link to its search
tool for country-by-country health services information, including
yearly totals of medical school graduates.


Based on your clarifications, I am confident that this is exactly the
information you are seeking.  As I said above, if you need further
help extracting information from the WHO database on specific
countries, please ask for clarification, and I will assist you
further.

markj-ga
crystal4290-ga rated this answer:5 out of 5 stars and gave an additional tip of: $10.00
You get a resounding applause - and a tip!  What a great researcher
you are, Mark!  You are not a regular that answers the questions that
I post...but I do hope that I will hear from you again.  Thank you so
much!!!!

Crystal

Comments  
Subject: Re: How many MDs graduating in Europe
From: rainbow-ga on 09 Sep 2004 10:28 PDT
 
Hi crystal,

Here is the information I have gathered regarding the UK and Canada.
Since I have it already compiled, I am posting it in the hopes it will
help you or another researcher in answering your question.


United Kingdom
--------------

?Delivering the NHS Plan also states that we will be putting more
staff in training. Provisional estimates by the Department show that
around 3,520 students will graduate from English medical schools
during the academic year 2001-2002 [this includes the December 2001
(including the main block of Cambridge graduates as well as other
schools re-sitters) and summer 2002 graduates]. Also, 5,430 students
will graduate from English medical schools during academic year
2007-2008. This should produce around an extra 1,900 medical school
graduates by 2008.?

Source:
Department of Health: HR DIRECTORS BULLETIN - 24 April 2002 
http://www.publications.doh.gov.uk/hrbulletin/hrbulletinspecialapr02.htm


Actual Intake and Output of Medical Schools in England 1997?98 to 2002-03

Academic year     Intake     Graduate output  
1997?98           3,749           3,261  
1998?99           3,735           3,097  
1999?2000         3,972           3,373  
2000?01           4,300           3,286  
2001?02           4,713           3,280  
2002?03           5,277           3,522  

Source:
The United Kingdom Parliament: Medical Students
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200304/cmhansrd/cm040506/text/40506w30.htm



Canada
------

?According to the Association of Canadian Medical Colleges, there were
1,599 medical school graduates last year, down from a peak of 1,835 in
1985. Although Canada has traditionally attracted doctors from South
Africa, Britain and Australia, more of them are going to the United
States for better pay and working conditions.?

Source:
Canada US Employment: Doctor Shortage in Canada
http://www.canadausemployment.com/news061302-02.htm


?The demographics of our population and physician population need to
be taken into account in our planning. A look at our medical schools
shows that it is not. With the expansion of medical schools in the
1950s, we were able to train more physicians. Numbers peaked in
the1970s, and have dropped substantially since then. Our output from
medical schools dropped to a low of nearly 1500 graduates per year and
is currently moving back to approximately 2000 a year. Put in context,
in the UK, there are 5000 medical school graduates for a population of
60 million. In Canada, there are under 2000 graduating physicians for
a population of approximately 30 million.?

Source:
Health Human Resources in Canada?s Healthcare System - Sept. 2002
http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/english/pdf/romanow/pdfs/Dialogue_9_Health_E.pdf.


Best wishes,
Rainbow
Subject: Re: How many MDs graduating in Europe
From: crystal4290-ga on 10 Sep 2004 02:15 PDT
 
Hello Rainbow,

Thank you for yor willigness to share the information that you did
find.  I wish that it were sufficient to meet my needs.  Perhaps
someone with multi-language skill will be able to source the missing
pieces of information for me.  Thank you again for your helpfulness!

Sincerely,

Crystal
Subject: Re: How many MDs graduating in Europe
From: markj-ga on 10 Sep 2004 11:59 PDT
 
crystal4290 --

This question is addictive, but while I have relevant information on
the UK and France, I haven't scored (yet) on Germany and Italy.  I
also have information, which I picked up as I went along, for an
assortment of 25(!) other European and non-European countries  -- from
Algeria to Zambia.  I intend to keep looking, but I have to leave the
project for a while, so I will unlock the question.

markj-ga
Subject: Re: How many MDs graduating in Europe
From: markj-ga on 11 Sep 2004 04:03 PDT
 
Crystal --

Thanks very much for the kind words, the five stars and the nice tip.

markj-ga

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