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Q: language and literature ( Answered 5 out of 5 stars,   3 Comments )
Question  
Subject: language and literature
Category: Arts and Entertainment > Books and Literature
Asked by: iscott123-ga
List Price: $7.50
Posted: 13 Sep 2004 08:58 PDT
Expires: 13 Oct 2004 08:58 PDT
Question ID: 400540
I am reading the classic "Stranger in a Strange Land."  In the book,
the character Hershaw states something to the effect of: "In Japanese,
there are five ways to say thank you, and each translates into some
form of resentment."  I would like to know if that statement is true.
Answer  
Subject: Re: language and literature
Answered By: vorfeed-ga on 13 Sep 2004 17:39 PDT
Rated:5 out of 5 stars
 
Dear iscott123-ga,

The formal way to say "thank you" in Japanese is "doomo arigatou
gozaimasu". It literally means "I'm very grateful". The kanji (Chinese
characters) which are used to write the "arigatou" ("grateful") part
of this phrase mean "to be difficult".

The author of a comment in a Wikipedia article on the Japanese
language theorizes about why these kanji are used to write this word:
"Arigatou - from arigata(k)u (another sound change, a+u = ou = long
o), lit. "gratefully"; denotes "existential compromise" according to
one theory: from ari+gatai, (to)be+difficult; something like "It is
difficult for me to live under this _on_ (debt, obligation) which your
action (or gift) has placed upon me."
"Japanese Language", comment by RonCraig
http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?JapaneseLanguage

This does seem to indicate some degree of resentment, since the idea
is that the kindness being appreciated has caused some difficulty for
the recipient. However, these days "arigatou" is generally written
without the use of kanji, and its usage certainly doesn't reflect the
meaning of the kanji that are used to write it. It simply means "thank
you". Variations on the phrase "doomo arigatou gozaimasu" are by far
the most common way that people express thanks in Japanese.

As for there being "five ways to say thank you" in Japanese, doing a
search on "thank" at Jeffrey's Online Japanese-English Dictionary
brings up twenty-five entries. Once you discount mismatches, the
various forms of "arigatou", and foreign words such as "sankyuu",
you're left with five results: "otsukaresama", "ooki ni", "okagesama
de", "gokurousama", and "habakarisama".

"Otsukaresama" means "you [must be] tired". It's often used to thank
people for their work. "ooki ni" is a regionalism, used in the Kansai
region of Japan. It literally means "big", presumably describing the
extent of one's thanks. "okagesama de" means "due to [your or God's]
support". It's used to thank people for something they've done that
resulted in a positive outcome, as in "it's thanks to you." It's also
used as a general expression of thankfulness for a positive outcome,
as in "it's thanks to God". "gokurousama" means "you [must have]
suffered". This one is also used to thank people for their work.
Lastly, "habakarisama" means "you [have] great influence". It's a very
uncommon way to say thank you - in studying Japanese I have honestly
never heard it, and Google only has all of 18 results for its kanji
form, and 44 for its non-kanji form.

That does make a total of five common ways to say "thank you":
"arigatou", "otsukaresama", "okagesama de", "ooki ni", and
"gokurousama". The English import "sankyuu" is relatively common as
well.

I would say that "arigatou" is the only one that translates into a
form of resentment. Most of the others highlight the effort of the
recipient of the thanks. In Japanese culture, actions undertaken for
another do imply a sense of obligation on the part of the recipient,
which might in turn lead to resentment. However, "arigatou" is the
only form of "thank you" that literally translates into a direct
statement of resentment. Resentment is a somewhat subjective judgment,
though, so I'll leave it to you to decide the ultimate truth of
Heinlein's statement.


Additional Links:

Search for "thank" at Jeffrey's Japanese<->English Dictionary:
http://linear.mv.com/cgi-bin/j-e/sjis/tty/dosearch?sDict=on&H=PS&L=E&T=thank&WC=none

Alternative sci.lang.japan Frequently Asked Questions:
http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/afaq/afaq.html

Search strategy:

"arigatou literal meaning"
://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&c2coff=1&q=arigatou+literal+meaning&btnG=Search


If you'd like some clarification on any of these points, please
request an Answer Clarification. I'd be happy to help you. Your
question isn't finished until you're satisfied with my answer, so
please don't hesitate to ask! Thanks for submitting this question!
-vorfeed_ga
iscott123-ga rated this answer:5 out of 5 stars and gave an additional tip of: $1.00
Nicely done and complete.  Good work.  Thanks

Comments  
Subject: Re: language and literature
From: archae0pteryx-ga on 13 Sep 2004 23:43 PDT
 
Vorfeed, it sounds like I ought to have collected a response from you
to my #353567 (http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=353567).
 I am still interested in knowing what researchers are authorities in
which languages, and you certainly sound like someone who knows
Japanese.

Your answer to this question was very interesting.  Thanks,
iscott123-ga, for asking a good one.

Archae0pteryx
Subject: Re: language and literature
From: vorfeed-ga on 14 Sep 2004 09:43 PDT
 
To be honest, Archae0pteryx, I don't consider myself fluent by any
means, so I felt as if I should abstain. :) The best I can do is
"academic proficiency", since Japanese is my field of study. I'll add
myself to the list for that, though. Thanks for the reminder!
Subject: Re: language and literature
From: vorfeed-ga on 14 Sep 2004 09:44 PDT
 
I'm glad you liked my answer, iscott123. Thanks so much for the rating and tip!

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