Google Answers Logo
View Question
 
Q: The folk in the Countries 'liberated' by Stalin from 1939 on ... ( No Answer,   10 Comments )
Question  
Subject: The folk in the Countries 'liberated' by Stalin from 1939 on ...
Category: Relationships and Society > Government
Asked by: probonopublico-ga
List Price: $15.00
Posted: 16 Sep 2004 05:38 PDT
Expires: 26 Sep 2004 22:19 PDT
Question ID: 401962
Did they think it was their lucky day, or not?
Answer  
There is no answer at this time.

Comments  
Subject: Re: The folk in the Countries 'liberated' by Stalin from 1939 on ...
From: scriptor-ga on 16 Sep 2004 06:24 PDT
 
Hm, that's not an easy question. But let us see, what countries do we
have in that list (in no particular order)?

- Hungary. The Hungarians had experienced one year of German
occupation with the terror regime of the Hungarian fascists. I could
imagine that quite a few Hungarians were very happy to see the first
tank with a red star on the turret.

- Czechoslovakia. The Czech part of the country had been the
Protektorat Böhmen und Mähren since 1939, which meant merciless direct
rule from Berlin. Slovakia had a puppet regime under local fascists
that were no better. It's hard to imagine that Czechs and Slovakians
felt anything but joy when the Red Army arrived.

- Poland. I could imagine that the Poles were rather disenchanted -
after all, they were among the few peoples who had already made their
experiences with Stalin's way of ruling, after their country had been
divided up between the Soviet Union and Germany in 1939. And the
Polish resistance fighters had surely not forgotten that the Red Army,
on Stalin's orders, stood on the other side of the Vistula river, not
moving a centimeter nor shooting a single bullet to support them
during the Warsaw uprising of August/September 1944.

- The three Baltic nations. They knew exactly what Soviet rule meant -
after all, they had already been occupied from 1940 to 1941. Seeing
the Germans leave and the Red Army return was certainly like
exchanging the Devil for Satan to them.

- Romania. A special case, since the Soviet army did not enter the
country as liberator-conquerors, but as allies because Romania had
switched sides after the anti-fascist royalist putsch of 23 August
1944.

Yugoslavia was not really liberated by the Red Army; when the Soviets
arrived, the Yugoslav partisan forces had already fulfilled most of
this task themselves, resulting in a strong feeling of selfconfidence
in the years to come.
I don not have material about the internal situation of Bulgaria at
hand, so I can't say anything about it and I pefer not to speculate
whether authoritarian Czarist rule was popular with the Bugarians or
not. As far as I know, Bulgaria, though a German ally, had never
declared war on the USSR. Rather, the Soviets declared war on Bulgaria
in 1944. This might have caused a certain bitter feeling, but I can't
prove it at the moment.
And Albania ... well, who can ever understand Albania?

Regards,
Scriptor
Subject: Re: The folk in the Countries 'liberated' by Stalin from 1939 on ...
From: probonopublico-ga on 16 Sep 2004 07:33 PDT
 
Hi, Scriptor

Well that is one great comment for starters.

Would you like to expand into an Answer, or not?

I lunched today and my waitress was a delightful young Russian woman.
There are now so many here in Brighton and they all seem ever so nice.

I've never been to Russia. Maybe I should.

All the Best

Bryan
Subject: Re: The folk in the Countries 'liberated' by Stalin from 1939 on ...
From: czh-ga on 16 Sep 2004 08:13 PDT
 
My parents lived through the siege of Budapest. They watched the
Russian soldiers shoot German prisoners of war on the banks of the
Danube and dump their bodies in the river. My parents' apartment was
looted by the Russians and my father was conscripted by them. My
grandmother's house was bombed and the house where she took refuge
with her daughters was appropriated by the Russians. They raped my 22
year old aunt but thought they were being kind because they brought a
little black market sugar for her six year old sister. They 
terrorized everyone else in the home -- including my mother who had
just given birth to me.

No. Some Hungarians were not happy to see the Russians "liberate" them.

~ czh ~
Subject: Re: The folk in the Countries 'liberated' by Stalin from 1939 on ...
From: pafalafa-ga on 16 Sep 2004 08:29 PDT
 
Did the Iraqi's think it was their lucky day when the US arrived...?

It's hard question to know the answer to, even in a very contemporary
context.  I'm not sure it's any easier to answer it historically.  But
if anyone can shed some light on it, I'm sure scriptor is the man for
the job...


paf
Subject: Re: The folk in the Countries 'liberated' by Stalin from 1939 on ...
From: scriptor-ga on 16 Sep 2004 08:57 PDT
 
Hello Bryan!

I'm not sure if I should try and expand my comment to an answer -
after all, it only reflects the general impression I got from history
books, and my colleague czh-ga's comment demonstrated how wrong I
could be.
I think that someone with better insight in Eastern European history
than me should answer this question. I don't feel very well with
providing such "fuzzy" information. If my comment was of any use for
you, it has already fulfilled its purpose.

Regards,
Scriptor
Subject: Re: The folk in the Countries 'liberated' by Stalin from 1939 on ...
From: probonopublico-ga on 16 Sep 2004 10:18 PDT
 
Hi, Again, Scriptor & Hi, czh ...

What a horrific experience for your family. Such brutality is almost
beyond belief. I believe that Stalin encouraged his troops to collect
'trophies'.

As you say, Scriptor, only natives from the countries in question can
possibly say ... The rest of us are just bewildered by the propaganda.

I wonder if any other European readers have experiences that would be
prepared to share?

My warmest thanks to you both.

All the Best

Bryan
Subject: Re: The folk in the Countries 'liberated' by Stalin from 1939 on ...
From: valare-ga on 16 Sep 2004 17:10 PDT
 
My Lithuanian grandparents left because of the Russians and during the
war stayed in German transit camps as 'displaced' persons.  I don't
think they were looking to be liberated by the people they were
basically running fun.  It doesn't mean they had a fun time in Germany
during those years, there were some things my Grandpa would never talk
about.
Subject: Re: The folk in the Countries 'liberated' by Stalin from 1939 on ...
From: probonopublico-ga on 16 Sep 2004 23:33 PDT
 
Thank you Valare for sharing your grandparents' experience.

Sadly, there was no opportunity to ask such questions when they were
alive but, as you say, there were some things that your Grandpa didn't
want to talk about.

Luckily, they evidently got away ... 

I understand that, after the war, millions were sent back to Russia,
against their wishes.

All the Best

Bryan
Subject: Re: The folk in the Countries 'liberated' by Stalin from 1939 on ...
From: politicalguru-ga on 19 Sep 2004 02:22 PDT
 
Your question is unanswerable, my dear Probono. If we talk about
"people" in general, there aren't any real surveys that could be used
to determine how people felt. If we talk about individuals, each has
their own experience, and it is sometimes a mixed experience, of
relief from the former regime and fear of the coming one.

We tend to learn history, and to document, based on vast events, not
on individual experiences. When we study a historical even such as the
occupation of Eastern Europe by the Red Army, historians tend to look
at the big picture - the alternative (Nazi or Nazi-puppet regimes),
the war as a large-scale event, and to mark it as a "positive" event
because of the downfall of these regimes and the end of the War.

Individuals, on the other hand, might have different views, based on
their own private experiences, that are very different from the big
picture. Perhaps, an individual that wasn't Jewish or communist was
not much bothered by the Nazi alternative. After all, antisemitism was
prevalent in Eastern Europe at the time, and communism was viewed by
many as a danger. A totalitarian regime such as the Nazi or the
Nazi-sympthiser regimes, does not win its authority only by force -
many people might have agreed with the inhilation of the Jews (who
they hated in any case), the detention of Gypsies and the fight
against communism. Many others would have cooperated with any regime,
in order to survive. The lack of non-communist resistance against
puppet-governments (that is, governments that were not preceived as
occupying forces) demonstrates this point. Most of the non-communists
(and non-Jews, of course) cooperated with the regime and might have
even enjoyed (directly or indirectly) the confiscation of Jewish
property. However, even if we follow this approach and claim that
organisations and individuals usually legitimised the Fascist regimes,
there were still people who resisted: the Church as an organisation
might have cooperated with the Nazis, but individual priests and nuns
did their best - under immense threat - to save as many Jews or
communists as possible. These two groups could be hardly cosidered
allies of the Church (though there was of course the hope of
converting them).

Not only the individual experiences during the Nazi (or collaborating
Fascist) regimes was different, but of course also during the Red Army
occupation. I disagree with Scriptor here, because as I demonstrated
before, I think that most people just wanted to live their life, not
to attract the Communists' negative attention, and therefore complied,
just as they did with the Nazis. Some of them might have been happy -
those who understood what kind of moral crimes have been committed or
that have been themselves victims of the former regime. Some have been
extremely unhappy - those who benefited directly or indirectly from
the former regime, those who had been preceived as collaborators with
the former regime. Most people had probably mixed feelings:
- They weren't happy with a foreign army occupying their country; 
- There were some war crimes committed by the Soviets, against local
population, especially where the population was viewed as a
collaborator of the former regime;
- On the other hand, the war was over, which probably made many happy; 
- And at least some were happy to get rid of the former regime. 

I was recently hospitalised, and a woman who was with me was about 70
and had experienced the occupation of Germany by the Red Army. The
Soviets weren't very kind there: in Berlin, there are estimates of
50,000 rapes. She told me about the hunger by the last period of the
war, about the constant life in the cellar (which was a shelter); she
also remembered the chocolate and candies that the soldiers brought
her, but also the fact that they took some family jewelry from the
apartment. She said - but then again, this reflects her own very
individual opinion, and she is a person who chose to stay in the
Soviet Occupied Zone, in general, it wouldn't be acceptable for a
German to say otherwise - that she felt immiense relief when the war
was over and was generally happy, despite the difficulties.
Subject: Re: The folk in the Countries 'liberated' by Stalin from 1939 on ...
From: probonopublico-ga on 19 Sep 2004 04:00 PDT
 
Hi, Politicalguru

You are wrong!

My question is answerable and your Comment would be very acceptable as
such so please ask your butler to tickle the 'Answer' icon.

You are absolutely right, I'm sure.

I recall reading the autobiography of Norman Baillie-Stewart, one of
the British renegades who broadcast Nazi propaganda. For some reason,
he was in Austria when the Allied liberators arrived.

The populace immediately switched their loyalties: their Swastikas
were hidden and the Stars & Stripes (or whatever) suddenly appeared
everywhere.

I guess that our basic instinct is survival and our preferred mode is optimism.

I was sorry to hear of your hospitalisation and I hope you are now
back in harness.

So send for the butler!

All the Best

Bryan

Important Disclaimer: Answers and comments provided on Google Answers are general information, and are not intended to substitute for informed professional medical, psychiatric, psychological, tax, legal, investment, accounting, or other professional advice. Google does not endorse, and expressly disclaims liability for any product, manufacturer, distributor, service or service provider mentioned or any opinion expressed in answers or comments. Please read carefully the Google Answers Terms of Service.

If you feel that you have found inappropriate content, please let us know by emailing us at answers-support@google.com with the question ID listed above. Thank you.
Search Google Answers for
Google Answers  


Google Home - Answers FAQ - Terms of Service - Privacy Policy