Please point me to websites that offer help in recognizing the
particular pattern of a logic problem and knowing what strategy to
apply in solving it:  for example, how to attack a puzzle involving a
set of rules for a sequenced string (e.g., A must not follow B unless
it follows two B's), a three-dimensional matrix puzzle, etc., complete
with applicable tables and matrix diagrams in multiple dimensions and
examples of how they are used.

I am not looking for puzzle pages offering brain teasers for fun, nor
do I want to buy a book.  I am looking for basic models, principles,
and strategies that teach how to solve such puzzles.

If my question isn't clear, please ask for clarification before posting an answer.

Thank you,
Archae0pteryx

---

Request for Question Clarification by rainbow-ga on 26 Sep 2004 16:37 PDT

Hi archae0pteryx,

Please take a look at the following sites and let me know if this is
what you are looking for:

http://www.standards.dfes.gov.uk/primary/teachingresources/mathematics/nns_unit_plans/year1/y1t2_problemsolving/nns_unitplan050803ks1problem.pdf

http://puzzles.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.puzzlemakers.net%2Fsolve.html

http://www.mysterymaster.com/links/592FinalReport.pdf

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/4484/lptips.htm

http://www.pennypress.com/solvers/solve_logic_problems.pdf

Best regards,
Rainbow

---

Clarification of Question by archae0pteryx-ga on 26 Sep 2004 18:07 PDT

Hi, Rainbow--

Thank you for taking my question.

I checked those sites you offered.  They're circling near the mark,
but something more is needed.

http://www.standards.dfes.gov.uk/primary/teachingresources/mathematics/nns_unit_plans/year1/y1t2_problemsolving/nns_unitplan050803ks1problem.pdf
Doesn't have any how-to information.

http://puzzles.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.puzzlemakers.net%2Fsolve.html
Dead-ends at a broken link.

http://www.mysterymaster.com/links/592FinalReport.pdf
Is helpful as far as it goes.

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/4484/lptips.htm
Is somewhat helpful.
For item 2, I'd want samples of grids and how to use them, and not
just advice to use a grid (that much seems self-evident).
For item 8, is there a system of notation for describing the facts and
a set of rules for analyzing them?  Again, saying what one should do
is not much use unless there is a clue to how to do it.

http://www.pennypress.com/solvers/solve_logic_problems.pdf
The most helpful one, in that it exzplains matrix puzzles and shows
actual grids and how to fill them in.  For matrix puzzles, this would
probably suffice.

Is there some known small set of basic or most common logic puzzle
forms?  Is there a solution strategy for each type?  Is there
something comparable to the last citation for the types other than
matrix puzzles?  That's what I'm after.  You're on the right track.

Thank you,
Archae0pteryx

---

Request for Question Clarification by rainbow-ga on 27 Sep 2004 11:41 PDT

Hi Archae0pteryx,

Here are a few more sites that I found. If these are not the types of
sites you are looking for, hopefully another researcher will be able
to better help you.

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin/solutions.htm

http://www.mysterymaster.com/guide.html

http://pages.prodigy.net/spencejk/solvelps.html

Best wishes,
Rainbow

---

Clarification of Question by archae0pteryx-ga on 27 Sep 2004 20:53 PDT

Good work, Rainbow.  I think you've covered matrix puzzles very
thoroughly.  Can you find out anything on technique for the other type
mentioned by Crythias in the comment section?--the "map/circle/line"
type?  If it's true that there are two basic types, then a little more
on how to attack this type is allwe're missing.

Many thanks,
Archae0pteryx

---

Request for Question Clarification by rainbow-ga on 28 Sep 2004 02:39 PDT

Hi Archae0pteryx,

I am aware of the types of puzzles commented by crythias, however
after searching for solution strategies for this other type of logic
puzzle, I am hitting a dead end.

As it is, I happen to have a Logic Puzzle Magazine and read the tips
for solving the puzzles. Here is a solving hint for "True or False"
types of puzzles:

In True or False Puzzles, start by comparing contradictory statements. For example:

Bob says: "Ted's not Mr. Don."
Ted says: "Bob's lying. I'm Mr. Lee."

If Ted is truthful and he's Mr. Lee, then Bob is also telling the
truth when he says he's not Mr. Don. So Ted's statement (that Bob is
lying) must be untrue - thus Bob is truthful.

When you sort out the honest from the dishonest, you can go on to
solving the puzzle in the normal way.


Also contained in the magazine are the solving tips and solution of an
example of the "fill-in chart" types of puzzles. But for copyright
reasons, I am not able to copy the example. You can find this
explanation in most books of Dell Logic Problems.


More sites that may help:

http://www.learner.org/channel/courses/learningmath/geometry/session3/part_b/game.html

http://webster.cs.uga.edu/~jam/acm-se/review/referee/tbeaubouef.doc

Best of luck,
Rainbow

---

Clarification of Question by archae0pteryx-ga on 28 Sep 2004 12:21 PDT

Rainbow,

Thanks very much for your research efforts and all your helpful
information.  Please post your answer.  It's okay with me if the
formal answer just recaps and points to what you have already posted
without restating all of it.

Archae0pteryx

Hi Archae0pteryx,

Thank you for accepting my findings as an answer to your question. 

In addition to what I have already posted, my suggestion would be to
buy a logic puzzle book. I know you said you didn't want to buy one,
however, most of them explain the procedures for solving the puzzles
at the beginning of the book.

Here's one you might find helpful:

Increase Your Puzzle IQ : Tips and Tricks for Building Your Logic Power 

"Consists of 105 puzzles spread over 10 instructional chapters and a
review chapter. There are also two fully explained and solved
illustrative examples in each instructional chapter. Contains the 10
most common types of logic puzzles, from basic deductive logic to more
complex mathematical bafflers. Includes 20 test puzzle questions which
enable users to test their "Puzzle IQ."

Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/detail/-/books/0471157252/


Best wishes,
Rainbow

Your information has been very helpful.  My son is only a few days
away from taking the LSAT, and I just discovered that he did not have
any training in solving logic puzzles, so he has been trying to solve
the methodology while also solving the puzzle.  There wasn't time to
order, shop for, or read a book.  You (and Crythias) have just given
him valuable keys.  Now he can focus his very good reasoning powers on
applying appropriate strategies and techniques instead of having to
spend his efforts inventing them on the spot.

Thank you,
Archae0pteryx

I love logic problems, and Cross Sums as well. I'm not an expert at
either, but have fun solving them. In general, the logic problem is
either a matrix type or a map/circle/line type. There are lots of
variants to be sure, but the ones you will likely find in the puzzle
mags are of these variants.

The general idea is partially remove/acknowledge what is known and
trial-and-error (sometimes) what is not.

Reading the answers of a puzzle book gives really good hints as to how
the puzzle was solved. I didn't like to read the answers, but the
answers help me solve the puzzles "better". The best strategy is to
work on the event that has the most clues, either positive or
negative. Usually, you will find that one particular item is inferred
through multiple clues. Also, it is important to WRITE THE CLUE NUMBER
in the matrix. This is a tip that you don't get from the simple
tutorial, but it is crucial to solving more complex puzzles as you ask
yourself "How did I figure this clue out?".

If anything, you need to know ALL the events in the clue (some are in
the description). Also, a solution is easier once you determine a
linking event. Let's say you have Names, Times, and Places. If you
learn that one of the Names is absolutely linked with a Time, the
reverse is true as well. The easiest things to knock out (and the most
frequent clues!) are orders of events. "The youngest person wasn't a
female" can give you two or three X's. "Sally was older than Tom but
younger than Ivan" gives you a lot of information. We know that Tom
and Sally aren't the oldest, and that Ivan and Sally aren't the
youngest. Even if the clue was "Sally was older than the Sailor and
younger than the one who won first prize"... this gives a lot of
information as well. We know even more information: Sally wasn't the
Sailor, and didn't win first prize. The Sailor didn't win first Prize.
The Sailor is at least two away from being the oldest. Sally isn't
oldest or youngest. The one who won first prize is at least two away
from being the youngest. This, coupled with something else we might
know, helps to clarify events. Probably a range of events will be a
good place to centralize an attack on a Matrix.

As I noted, the others are Map/circle/line (or math) related.
map/circle/line are generally "This person sat either to the right or
left of the person with this criteria" or "Joe's house number is one
more than Lane's position north of Sue's". Similar criteria can be
used as a Matrix, and deductions can be similarly assessed.

The harder puzzles are sometimes inclusive of general knowledge (a la
Crossword Puzzles) and/or related to either mathematics or previous
puzzles' solution(s). The math ones are particularly tricky because it
is usually very difficult to figure out the base number upon which all
other calculations are made.

In all, though, each logic problem is different, especially when you
get into Mensa type problems. The solution is probably staring you in
the face, but under a time crunch it may be hard to notice the
"pattern" of such as OTTFFSS (what are the next three letters?)

I hope this free comment was helpful.

Thanks, Crythias, your comments were very helpful.  I know about the
grid for a matrix puzzle.  What's the template or notation you use or
fill in for a line or sequence type puzzle?

Archae0pteryx

(The next three letters are ENT.)

Hi Archae0pteryx,

Although what I found wasn't exactly what you needed, I'm glad I was
still able to help. Thank you very much for the rating and tip.

Best regards,
Rainbow

For line or sequence, it's simple a bunch of empty boxes or arrays of
underline blanks (place holders): ____ ____ ____

In certain cases, map/circle/line puzzles can be as easy or difficult
as any other puzzles.

If we have Abe, Brenda, and Charlie sitting in a line, It's rather
easy to figure out that, given 1) they weren't in the order listed,
and 2) Charlie isn't First, that the order is Brenda, Charlie, Abe.
(Abe isn't first (1), Charlie isn't first (2), so Brenda is. Charlie
isn't third (1), Abe is. Charlie is second.

Yes, ENT is correct, btw..

LSATs and other standardized tests may be of a WIDE variety of logic,
but PROBABLY likely to be of pattern recognition moreso than involved
Dell/PennyPress Logic Problems. (It's a timed test, so solving for
four classes (First Name, Last Name, Costume, Prize) of five events
each class -- many "Logic Problem" puzzles are essentially this -- is
probably not likely.)

If you take www.tickle.com's IQ test, you may get a taste for the
"other logic" problems.

Hi, Crythias--

Thanks very much for the additional information.  The sample LSAT
questions I saw were pretty involved.  The first was a six-item
sequence puzzle with seven questions to be answered.  Note that there
was *not* one solution to which all seven questions applied.  There
was a list of rules and givens, and then the seven questions were
conditional:  "If L was second, which had to be third?"  It took a
different solution to answer each of the questions, depending on the
information in the question, but all answers were subject to the rules
and givens at the beginning.

The second was a 5 x 4 matrix puzzle with eight questions.

I did not even look beyond the second.

My son is an A student and a ten-year member of Mensa who typically
comes in at the 97th or 98th percentile on standardized tests.  He's
scoring at about the 90th percentile on the LSAT practice tests.  So
he has to gain some technique before Saturday.

I'm a little surprised by your comment about the "wide variety." 
Earlier you said there were basically two types--the matrix type or a
map/circle/line type.  Were you just talking about puzzle magazines? 
I never mentioned puzzle mags at all and did not in any way limit the
answer to puzzle mags because they were never the focus of my
interest.  If there are many other types, this is the first mention of
that fact.  Should we worry?

I took tickle.com's "free" test once and then found out, after
expending 30 or 40 minutes on it, that they weren't going to give me
my score unless I signed up for something.  I consider that a
deceptive come-on, and I won't be going back there.

Archae0pteryx

When I said "wide variety", I meant it as you would find in Mensa type
exams. Each puzzle is not necessarily logic, although logic and
intelligence are very tightly connected, in some circles. "What comes
next in the following sequence?" type puzzles are "logical" but
they're (IMHO) a lot like magic tricks. You either understand the
trick or you don't. Most one-statement logic puzzles are like that.
Either you get the "obvious" answer or you're not going to get it. And
it's almost no fun when you know the trick. Sorta, unless you show the
trick to someone who doesn't know it.

FERINSTANCE, the OTTFFSS puzzle. It's not obvious to "everyone" and
only "intelligent" people will get that and puzzles like it. Mensa
tests and the puzzles such as on tickle.com don't have a "way to
solve", usually. They're just "do you know it?"/General knowledge. But
there are a wide variety of ways to ask  that question. So, it may be
asked numerically or verbally or geometrically.

I took the tickle.com (when it was emode.com) IQ test and got my
*score* free but I didn't buy the full report.

So, I did focus my response on logic problems as are in books, and I'm
reading your needs and hit this site:
http://www.microedu.com/lsat/freetest.htm and
http://www.collegejournal.com/exams/lsat_intro/index.htm

For the critical reasoning tests, it's pretty much... Did they say it
int he question? (OK, sometimes they didnt' *say* it, but if something
says the largest   percent of X is somewhere, then somewhere is the
SMALLEST of Y (X+Y=100%) )

The beauty of the exams that are multiple choice are that you can
sometimes start with the answers and see if they make sense to the
question... select your best choices, and eliminate the worst.

I skimmed through the examples above. The questions are tough, and I
got some wrong, but I know why (mostly in a hurry). The LSAT's are
supposed to be tough. But I'm pretty sure your kid's going to do quite
all right.

Crythias,

The LSAT was this morning, and I am fretting slightly, as the parental
handbook says I must.  But I'm sure you're right, he'll do fine. 
First, I found out that he was already scoring at the 97th percentile,
not the 90th, on practice tests (168 out of 172 points).  And second,
he has made a quick gain of skill and style from the sources I've
supplied this week, thanks to you and Rainbow.

I understand what you mean about those Mensa-type tests:  they depend
on "getting it," in some fashion, and sometimes that means looking at
things sideways, as in the OTT... puzzle (shall we tell folks what
that one is about or wait until they ask?).  Those are perhaps better
said to be a class of puzzles than a type, since each tends to be the
sole instance of its pattern, if I'm not mistaken.  That's what makes
them tests of IQ and not of learned skills or accumulation of
information.  I'm sure my son will handle those well enough.

Thanks very much for your help and encouragement.

Archae0pteryx

Did you get results back yet?

Yes!  Thank you for asking, Crythias.  He scored at the 97th
percentile.  So the practice tests were a bang-on predictor of his
performance.

He did do some late-night studying of all the material I supplied on
the basis of helpful information given here.  I'm sure it didn't hurt!

Archae0pteryx