I married my US husband 18 months ago.  I am part way through the
immigration procedure.  I am here on a K3 (spousal) visa.  I really
can't take anymore of the situation.  I have a child from a previous
relationship that he is abusive to.  I need to get out of this.  I
just don't know how.

I left my job to come here, I was working in IT and am so out of date
now my skills are useless and I am unemployable; would have to retrain
in the UK. I still own a house in the UK that I rent out.

My question is where do I stand.  I want to divorce him and move back
to the UK.  I don't care about immigration, green card, etc.  I just
want to get away.

What I do want is to sort out finances.  I haven't worked because I am
not allowed to work here.

So, where do I stand financially?  I need to know so I can plan my
retreat.  I know California is a 'community property' state.  What
exactly does that mean for me?  As it is my husband is telling me he
is going to take back my engagement ring as he considers that
community property.  But he did finance it and continue the financing
into our marrigae.  IHe could have afforded to pay it outright so I
believe he did it so he could claim it back if anything went wrong.

So, what am I entitled to?  I don't mean to sound mercenary but I am
so sick of him abusing my child.  He has admitted that he hates my
child, he has said he is not sorry for hurting my child and he is
jealous of the realtionship I have with my child.

I can't live like this so I need to know where I stand so I can plan
my retreat and rebuild a life for myself and my child, away from this
abuse.

I can't find anything specific to my situation.

To summarise:
I have been married circa 18 months.
I have not worked during the marriage.
My husband is a relatively high earner.
I want to get divorced and return to the UK.
The house is mortgaged up to 80% of it's value.  He bought and
mortgaged it before we married.
I have a property in the UK mortgaged up to 50% of it's value.  Bought
and mortgaged before we married.

What am I entitled too?
What kind of lump sum can I expect?
What ongoing financial support can I expect?

---

Clarification of Question by netcal-ga on 28 Sep 2004 08:11 PDT

Just on my way to take my son to school and I dropped by to see if I
have any advice.  And I do, excellent advice, thank you.

Just a quick one, my son is 8 years old and we don't have a basement.
LOL. I'll be back later to add some more.

Thanks again.

I don't know, in short, but you certainly have a terrible situation to address.

Could you estimate:

1: The net equity values of both properties.

2: The value of the engagement ring (realisation is likely to be a lot
less than the purchase price).

3: The value of your other assets.

4: Your husband's income.

This is not going to sound very pleasant.
However one needs to be realistic.

You have not been married for very long.
Your husband detests your child, the feeling is probably mutual, and
not unexpected. It is disturbing for a child to be uprooted.

Use of the word 'abuse' is extreme, it suggests physical/sexual
malpractices, which are unlikely to be the case otherwise you would
have no problem with your husband - as you are well aware a swift
visit to a doctor would get him into real trouble.

By keeping a house in the UK, you also showed a degree of reservation
and financial acumen. Rather more than buying a ring on finance.

Although your husband might be a relatively high earner, an 80%
mortgage suggests that he does not have much in the way of assets. It
is possible that your 50% of a UK house is worth more than the 20% of
a US property.

I can see two viable solutions to this (and a lot of unpleasant
alternative scenariaos).
If you still get on well with your husband when your child is not
around, then it could be that you are not seeing what is really going
on.
If that is not the case, then the quickest and cleanest solution would
be for you to 'cut and run'.
Starting again in the UK will not be easy, but you have a house and at
worst the UK is surprizingly generous to single mothers.

From the sound of things, I would not be surprized if your husband
decided to cut and run first - it is very possible that he is
arranging a new job some way away. Something also makes me suspect
that he has been cleaned out by an earlier divorce.

Unpleasant advice, but I think practical.

[QUOTE] I don't know, in short, but you certainly have a terrible
situation to address.

Could you estimate:

1: The net equity values of both properties.

2: The value of the engagement ring (realisation is likely to be a lot
less than the purchase price).

3: The value of your other assets.

4: Your husband's income.
[/QUOTE]

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

In response:

1. The equity in the homes stands at about $75,000 in mine and
$100-150,000 in his house here.

2. The ring cost about $20,000 new

3. $220,000

[QUOTE] This is not going to sound very pleasant.
However one needs to be realistic.

You have not been married for very long.
Your husband detests your child, the feeling is probably mutual, and
not unexpected. It is disturbing for a child to be uprooted.

Use of the word 'abuse' is extreme, it suggests physical/sexual
malpractices, which are unlikely to be the case otherwise you would
have no problem with your husband - as you are well aware a swift
visit to a doctor would get him into real trouble.

By keeping a house in the UK, you also showed a degree of reservation
and financial acumen. Rather more than buying a ring on finance.

Although your husband might be a relatively high earner, an 80%
mortgage suggests that he does not have much in the way of assets. It
is possible that your 50% of a UK house is worth more than the 20% of
a US property.

I can see two viable solutions to this (and a lot of unpleasant
alternative scenariaos).
If you still get on well with your husband when your child is not
around, then it could be that you are not seeing what is really going
on.
If that is not the case, then the quickest and cleanest solution would
be for you to 'cut and run'.
Starting again in the UK will not be easy, but you have a house and at
worst the UK is surprizingly generous to single mothers.

From the sound of things, I would not be surprized if your husband
decided to cut and run first - it is very possible that he is
arranging a new job some way away. Something also makes me suspect
that he has been cleaned out by an earlier divorce.

Unpleasant advice, but I think practical.

[/QUOTE]

Thank you for also taking the time to reply.  I appreciate your
perspective. I'll try and respond to your points.

No, we haven't been married long.  But my husband has been like this
now for about a year.  My the feelings are mutual.  Unfortunately,
every time my son trusts my husband to be nice to him and lets down
his guard he inevitably breaks that trust by flying off the handle and
some imagined slight.  He believes that everything my son does is
directed at him.  I'm not saying that he isn't a right royal sh!t
sometimes but husband feels everything is a deliberate attempt at
winding him up.

Abuse can and does include emotional abuse.  As far as physical, he
just pushes him, blocks his way and uses his body to push him around,
throws things at him (not making contact).  He shouts, refuses to let
him eat dinner, kicks his door, says abusive things to him, calls him
an animal, tells him nobody wants him around, calss him a sh!t, and
any other names he feels like.  tells him to go back to the UK. The
list is endless.

I take your point but I kept my house in the UK for several reasons. 
It was easier to rent it out. Property prices are rising, my house has
doubled in value in 4 years.  I saw it as an investment that I would
reap the rewards from despite the fact that the person renting from me
was the one making the payments on my behalf.  Husband wanted me to
hold onto it and has encouraged me to do this.  There has never been a
time that selling it would be necessary or sensible.

Yes, I get on with my husband when my child is not around.  This is
because he has me all to himself then.  I do what he wants to do and
give him all the attention he wants.  If I don't he sulks.  Friends
and family all pointed out to me early on that he seemed jealous and
didn't like sharing me, I didn't see this at the time.  Seems they
were right.  He's even like it around my mother.  It's loud, swearing,
shouting abuse and he doesn't care who hears him.

He has got itchy feet at the moment, he's been looking at jobs in
other areas but he can't move far because he has a son from his 2nd
marriage. He's been married twice before, the first marriage was short
and cost him nothing.  The 2nd marriage didn't clean him out, she got
a fair settlement.

I'm thinking that I need to cut and run.  Emotionally I can't even
consider it.  Financially I have to be practical.

Thanks for the advice though, it was very refreshing to have your
perspective.  I would really appreciate further advice from you.

Thank you, again.

Hi Netcal...


I fully agree with you that there is such a thing as "emotional"
abuse. I've been there. My ex also hated my son ( who was still living
with us at the time of our marriage ). He would  call him demeaning
names, order him around and just basically made my son's life hell. My
son finally moved out but the abuse would continue whenever he or his
sister came to visit....

My ex, much like your husband, basically wanted me just to himself. He
hated the fact that I had friends, liked to go out and cared about
other people...he was what is known as a *controller*...He hated to
share me with others.

One day in 2001, I just couldn't take it anymore and left with pretty
much only my clothes, a few pieces of furniture and my SANITY.
I may have lost in a *monetary* sense, but I gained oh so much in
regards to ME and my values.

The only advice I could give you is to see a lawyer regarding any
rights to property and assets. Most lawyers will give you an intial
free consultation regarding your rights, etc.

I wish you the very best and hope that you and your son will find
happiness and an abuse free life. You and your son deserve so much
more.

Steph53

Hi, Netcal

Steph is absolutely right.

I suggest you get your divorce sorted in Cal.

From what you say, it looks as though your house in the UK should be OK.

As regards the ring, your husband's attitude seems petty. I would
suggest that you get it valued at its realisable price (you will be
disappointed) and if necessary throw it into the communal pot at that
figure and take it from there.

Job wise in the UK, there's a skills shortage at present, so you
should be OK even if you need to re-train.

Best of Luck!

Hi NetCal,

It sounds as if your husband uses 'verbal violence' and controlled
physical intimidation to deal with situations (people) that he cannot
handle verbally and ideally rationally. Possibly because they are
stupid, most likely because they are manipulative.

It also sounds as if he does not treat you in the same way.

Something makes me infer that your son is adolescent, a difficult age.
Basically you have two dogs in the same kennel.

There seems little point in apportioning blame. The situation exists.

I rather suspect that your husband nurtured a fantasy of having a new,
interesting and interested wife, and two sons. He is probably feeling
very let down.

It is possibly worth considering getting your son out of the way for a
bit, and seeing what happens. It might even be worth considering
something drastic like boarding school. You could ask your son what he
wants, maybe he really wants you to take him back to the UK, maybe
not. The solution might be as simple as converting the basement into
his territory.

The wedding ring business strikes me as rather peculiar, however I am
not well up on the finer points of 'American bridal prices'. As
Probono pointed out, it is not really worth very much, diamonds are
not a girl's best friend.

Since you know that he has got itchy feet, you either have a good
intelligence network, or you are 'talking'.

Another point that needs to be brought out into the open, returning to
the UK will feel humiliating - especially if one left in a blaze of
splendour.

I suspect that you have an adolescent male on your hands.
And a deeply hurt husband who is confused by the situation.

If you and your husband do decide to call it a day, then you would
both be better off with an amicable settlement and a 'slow and gentle'
divorce, rather than an expensive scrap where lawyers consume what
assets you have.

Just one more unpleasant thought, what are the costs of selling a house in CA?
Assets should always be valued at their 'disposal value', not their purchase price.

I wish you well, and reckon that your best bet is look at things from
the three different points of view of the people involved.
Good Luck

Hi NetCal,

Hmm.. I underestimated your son's age
However he might be an early developer

Pity about the basement - it could have helped.

I'm coming to the view that the underlying problem is your husband's
reaction to your son, and vice versa.

There is a 'popular' psychological writer called Eric Berne.
He came up with something called 'transactional analysis' which struck
me as a bundle of loosely related, but interesting ideas. He wrote a
number of books, but I think the first one was 'The Games People Play'

One of his theories was that our personalities operate on three
levels: Parent, Adult and Child
- roughly:
 'concerned and responsible', 'intellectual' and 'playful and irresponsible'
This is all Ok, but the problems turn up:
a) when the inappropriate part of our personality emerges
   eg: when faced with an intellectual problem, throwing a tantrum
b) when two people communicate from the inappropriate parts of their
personalities. eg: 'parent <-> child' is Ok but 'adult <-> child'
creates confusion.

I have a hunch that the underlying problem(s) could be described in such terms.
(for heaven's sake don't suggest to your husband that he is acting
like a 'child' - that could set off an erruption - in fact don't use
this framework unless you have found out what Berne really meant
ie: Google for: eric berne transactional analysis )

Theories are useful, because, even though they are often wrong, they
give us a framework in which one can analyze the problem.

A couple of other disjointed points come to mind.
It would not be wise to institute a regime of punishment for your son
(or your husband) it could make both of their behaviour worse.
Similarly overt bribery would just lead to manipulative behaviour.

It would be very interesting watching how your son is 'needling' your
husband, also to find out why he reacts so extremely (possibly as a
child he was tormented by a younger sibling).

I would, and be careful about this, be very interested to see how the
pair of them got on if left totally alone. It is possible that your
presence is the 'catalyst' for both of their behaviour.

Finally, if you get the faintest hint of /actual/ physical violence,
or antipathy to you personally, then pack two small suitcases and head
for the airport.  Good Luck - and avoid bad advice.