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Subject:
Changing the Date on Postal Meter for Personal Gain
Category: Business and Money Asked by: capa-ga List Price: $100.00 |
Posted:
27 Sep 2004 10:45 PDT
Expires: 27 Oct 2004 10:45 PDT Question ID: 406956 |
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Subject:
Re: Changing the Date on Postal Meter for Personal Gain
Answered By: leapinglizard-ga on 27 Sep 2004 12:00 PDT Rated: ![]() |
Dear capa, I have good news and bad news. The bad news is that it is impossible to detect postal-meter fraud based on the numbers appearing in a printed stamp. The good news is that it is very difficult to backdate a postage meter, and essentially impossible to do so without detection by the postal authorities. First, consider the structure of the stamp printed by a Pitney Bowes postal meter. Such a stamp is known generically as a postal indicium, or postal indicia in the plural. A 1996 research paper that proposes cryptographic methods to strengthen the security of postal indicia includes an illustration of a postal indicium and points out its features. Bennet, Yee, Heintze: Cryptographic Postage Indicia http://www.bennetyee.org/ucsd-pages/pub/asian-96.ps You will need a PostScript viewer such as GhostView to read this document. On page 4, Figure 1 shows a standard Pitney Bowes postage stamp. The paper describes it thus. "On the left side of the [indicium] are the words 'Presorted First Class' printed vertically, identifying the class of the mail. Immediately to the right is the city-state circle, which notes the city (Pittsburgh), state (Pennsylvania) and the date (26th February, 1993) of the [indicium]. Further to the right, and directly underneath the eagle, is a meter identification mark (PB METER 6829680). This indicates that the imprint was made by a Pitney-Bowes meter, serial number 6829680. Finally, in the box on the right-hand end of the [indicium] is the postage value (29 cents)." So the numbers at the bottom of the stamp make up an identifying code for the postage meter that stays the same regardless of the date, amount, or location of the imprint. The very purpose of this research paper, which was funded by the United States Postal Service, is to explore methods of including additional information in a printed stamp that would enable the receiver to determine its authenticity. Such methods have not yet been implemented in Pitney Bowes postal meters. They will likely be common in the future, but by then, postage stamps will be printed from computers by specialized software. At present, Pitney Bowes postal meters are physically secured by a tamper-evident casing. A determined criminal would be able to force one open, but the casing is so designed that the unlawful access would be visible to the postal authorities, to whom the meter must be returned periodically to add more credit. The date of a stamp can be set forward without tampering and this would not be discernible to the receiver for the reasons given above, but it is not clear how this would be advantageous to the sender. To backdate a postal meter requires forcible and criminal entry. "You can set PB postage meters _ahead_ to any date, but you can't backdate them. ... Pitney Bowes postage meters can, in theory, be backdated, but you would need either a) a series of codes available only to certain PB technicians and administrators, or b) to break open the dater, run it backwards manually, reassemble it, and hope that it still functions. To do so, as you can guess, would violate several civil and criminal statutes, not the least of which would be Mail Fraud." Colin Fahey: Scholastic Aptitude Test http://www.colinfahey.com/2003apr5_sat/2003apr5_sat.htm Unless you suspect a Pitney Bowes technician of carrying out an inside job, it is highly unlikely that a postal meter has been compromised specifically to perpetrate a hoax on you. If you feel that my answer is incomplete or inaccurate in any way, please post a clarification request so that I have a chance to meet your needs before you assign a rating. Regards, leapinglizard Search Queries: postal meter tamper evident ://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&c2coff=1&q=postal+meter+tamper+evident&btnG=Search usps postal indicia ://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&c2coff=1&q=usps+postal+indicia&btnG=Search |
capa-ga
rated this answer:![]() I appreciate the clarity of your response even if I don't like the answer. I wanted to know if I had proof that fraud had been committed. My home was hit by a tornado resulting from hurricane Ivan. It is hard to believe that my policy was terminated the day the tornado hit. Thank you. |
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Subject:
Re: Changing the Date on Postal Meter for Personal Gain
From: sethhoyt-ga on 27 Sep 2004 12:28 PDT |
Isn't it possible for an envelope to be back-dated in advance, then later sealed and mailed. For example, someone who does this often can postmark and retain envelopes on a daily basis, then go back as far as necessary for a given mailing. -Seth |
Subject:
Re: Changing the Date on Postal Meter for Personal Gain
From: leapinglizard-ga on 27 Sep 2004 12:32 PDT |
Yes, sethhoyt, good point. It's possible to make backdated envelopes without any special technology, given sufficient foresight. Fraud of this kind is impossible to detect. leapinglizard |
Subject:
Re: Changing the Date on Postal Meter for Personal Gain
From: aj999-ga on 27 Sep 2004 12:33 PDT |
Leapinglizard's response is accurate for new postage meters, but I know that it is possible to stamp an earlier date on an envelope without breaking into or damaging the meter. The meters I used at previous jobs (through 1994) had to have the date advanced manually each morning before running any mail through them. That is, the meter itself didn't "know" the current date. It was not at all uncommon for somebody to forget to advance the date and run some mail through on the previous day's date. We then had to run the envelopes through with zero postage and the correct date on the back of the envelope to show the PO what date we were really mailing them. Your correspondent would have to have failed to advance his/her meter for several days to accomplish what you suspect was done, but it is certainly possible. So, in summary, you can't easily set a postage meter's date back, but you can simply not advance it. New meters might "know" the correct date, but I bet there are still lots of old ones out there. Also, I think the PO is supposed to check metered mail they receive to be sent out, to be sure the date is correct, but if your envelope was in the middle of a big stack it could easily go undetected. |
Subject:
Re: Changing the Date on Postal Meter for Personal Gain
From: leapinglizard-ga on 27 Sep 2004 12:39 PDT |
Interesting info, aj999. This method of failing to advance the postal meter achieves the same fraudulent results as stamping an envelope on the same day and then advancing it as usual. It is somewhat less convenient, however, since it requires that the machine remain unused for all other envelopes on subsequent days prior to correction, or else that one print inaccurate dates on all other envelopes. leapinglizard |
Subject:
Re: Changing the Date on Postal Meter for Personal Gain
From: grthumongous-ga on 27 Sep 2004 13:05 PDT |
Back in the late 1970s I heard an anecdote that someone was a few days late sending in their income tax return so they went to their office and back-dated some kind of machine. No idea if it was a Pitney Bowes (are they or were they then the Wintel of the postal meter world). Would a pre-1979 vintage machine of any major manufacturer permit such evasions? |
Subject:
Re: Changing the Date on Postal Meter for Personal Gain
From: denco-ga on 27 Sep 2004 13:45 PDT |
To add to aj999-ga's comment; with "old style" (totally mechanical) meters you could set the date to anything you wanted at any time you wanted. Roll it forwards or backwards, it didn't matter, as it was (as aj999-ga says) set manually. I don't know if there any of these old meters still out there, but if there are, then they could have changed the date and no one would be the wiser. Looking Forward, denco-ga - Google Answers Researcher |
Subject:
Re: Changing the Date on Postal Meter for Personal Gain
From: leapinglizard-ga on 27 Sep 2004 13:56 PDT |
Very interesting. However, I have never in my lifetime seen a stamp printed by a purely mechanical postal meter. Since all postal meters are managed by the United States Postal Service, in whose financial interest it is to maintain proper accounts, I don't see why such insecure models would remain long in service after becoming obsolete. leapinglizard |
Subject:
Re: Changing the Date on Postal Meter for Personal Gain
From: denco-ga on 27 Sep 2004 14:30 PDT |
Just to clarify. The meters, at least the important part, which was the funds on the meter, were secure. This was done by a wired lead tag that was secured on the meter with a "signed" press when you took it in to get it "refilled" with postage. No one really cared about the date all that much because you needed it to be pretty much current for it to work. That said, it was not unusual for a letter to be stamped with Friday's date (for example) and not be mailed until Monday. As long as there was "money" on the meter, and there had to be for the letter to get stamped, the USPS didn't mind. It wasn't all that unusual to "forward" date press releases, etc. As for taxes, the IRS requires a "real" postmark on your returns, and a meter mark doesn't fill that requirement. Maybe "in the day" that wasn't the case. Again, do these meters still exist out there? I don't know, but as meters were a very expensive item at one time, and as I imagine there aren't cheap now, it wouldn't shock me all that much to learn there were some still around. They were built like battleships at the time. Looking Forward, denco-ga - Google Answers Researcher |
Subject:
Re: Changing the Date on Postal Meter for Personal Gain
From: dreamboat-ga on 27 Sep 2004 15:52 PDT |
I'm with the rest. I used to have to backdate stuff all the time for the boss... |
Subject:
Re: Changing the Date on Postal Meter for Personal Gain
From: leapinglizard-ga on 27 Sep 2004 15:55 PDT |
Interesting, dreamboat. Tell us more. Did you do so recently? In a prior decade? Perhaps you could summarize the steps involved. leapinglizard |
Subject:
Re: Changing the Date on Postal Meter for Personal Gain
From: leapinglizard-ga on 27 Sep 2004 17:49 PDT |
Thank you for the rating, capa. You have a very sad story to tell. I feel for you. One day, perhaps, a great stroke of chance will fall in your favor. leapinglizard |
Subject:
Re: Changing the Date on Postal Meter for Personal Gain
From: steph1000-ga on 28 Sep 2004 05:43 PDT |
If it is fraud, the same thing may have happened to other people. I would look for those other people if I were you. |
Subject:
Re: Changing the Date on Postal Meter for Personal Gain
From: research_help-ga on 28 Sep 2004 06:12 PDT |
We obviously don't know all of the particulars of your situation, however, it is not unusual for mail to take extra time to arrive after a natural disaster. If this theory of fraud is based on mail taking a long time to arrive after a recent hurricane / tornado, then this would be a normal thing. |
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