Thanks for another intriguing question!
The expression of alarm over the ways of the young is certainly
nothing new. Many sources attribute a quote about the dreadful
behavior of children to Socrates. Its actual origin is in dispute, but
the dispute is an interesting one:
"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for
authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place
of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their
households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They
contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties
at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.
ATTRIBUTION: Attributed to SOCRATES by Plato, according to William L.
Patty and Louise S. Johnson, Personality and Adjustment, p. 277
(1953)."
Bartleby.com
http://www.bartleby.com/73/195.html
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The quote is commonly attributed to Socrates, but apparently there is
no conclusive evidence that he actually said it. The Library of
Congress notes that this quote is "attributed to Socrates by Plato"...
The quote may have come from Plato's Republic Book 4, where Socrates
is quoted saying the following regarding things that he thinks have
been neglected: "I mean such things as these: ? when the young are to
be silent before their elders; how they are to show respect to them by
standing and making them sit; what honour is due to parents; what
garments or shoes are to be worn; the mode of dressing the hair;
deportment and manners in general. You would agree with me? ? Yes."
The Greek philosopher Plato studied under Socrates. Plato complained
about the youth of the day, also. "What is happening to our young
people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They
ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions.
Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?" I think this is
a direct quote, but can't find the reference at the moment.
Here's another one:
"I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on
frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond
words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and
respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise
[disrespectful] and impatient of restraint" (Hesiod, 8th century BC).
Scouter Forums: Today's Kids
http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=35251&p=1
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A question which arises periodically on alt.quotations is for the full
text and the source of the 'ancient' writing complaining about the bad
manners of youth nowadays. It is frequently suggested that Socrates
coined the material (almost certainly not true) although it is
occasionally attributed to Roman, Babylonian or other ancient sources.
...the mayor of Amsterdam attributed this observation to Socrates:
'The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for
authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in lace of
exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their
households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They
contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties
at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.'
This wisdom from the grave was subsequently reported in the New York
Times and reprinted widely. After Malcolm Forbes included Socrates's
[sic] words in a Forbes magazine editorial entitled 'Youth,' his
research staff went crazy trying to prove their authenticity. They
contacted a wide range of librarians, classicists, and other experts
on Socrates. None knew of any source for the passage. The researchers
finally called Amsterdam's mayor, Gijsbert van Hall. Van Hall said
he'd seen the lines by Socrates in a Dutch book whose title he could
not recall. There the search ended. 'We suspect,' Forbes's [sic]
researchers concluded, '. . . that Socrates never did make those
cracks about Athenian youth.'...
Here (in the translation by Patric Dickinson) are some parts of the
speech that resemble the 'quotation' above:
. . .
A boy must hold his tongue among his elders.
. . .
Greed was abhorred, it was taboo to snatch
Radish tops, aniseed, or parsley before your elders,
Or to nibble kickshaws and giggle and twine one's feet.
. . .
So, you shall learn to hate the Agora,
And shun the baths and feel ashamed of smut;
. . .
And to get up and give your seat to your elders,
And not to behave towards your parents rudely
. . .
(From others) There are also sometimes suggestions that something
similar originated from ancient Sumer or Babylon, in particular,
something reputed to have been written on Babylonian clay tablets
thousands of years ago, a father complaining about how the rising
generation (his own son in particular) were lazy, disrespectful, were
going to make a mess of things...
I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on
the frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless
beyond words. When I was a boy, we were taught to be discrete and
respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise and
impatient of restraint.
--- Hesiod, Eighth Century B.C.
From the alt.quotations newsgroup Fri, 03 May 2002
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3cd28b96.753929%40news.earthlink.net&output=gplain
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Here is another great example:
"The world is passing through troublous times. The young people of
today think of nothing but themselves. They have no reverence for
parents or old age. They are impatient of all restraint. They talk as
if they knew everything, and what passes for wisdom with us is
foolishness with them. As for the girls, they are forward, immodest
and unladylike in speech, behavior and dress."
Who wrote that, and when do you think it was written?... it is an
extract from a sermon preached by Peter the Hermit in A.D. 1274!
First Evangelical Free Church
http://www.efree.org/sermons/commandments/failing_to_honor_our_parents.htm
It should be noted that the attribution of this quote to Peter the
Hermit is as shaky as the attribution of the other quote to Socrates.
But both quotes help to make the point that adults throughout history
have been alarmed by the behavior of young people. Fortunately,
civilization has not yet come to an end because of the rebelliousness
of teenagers!
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I'll conclude with one of my favorite quotations from one of my
favorite authors, the great G. K. Chesterton:
"I believe what really happens in history is this: the old man is
always wrong; and the young people are always wrong about what is
wrong with him. The practical form it takes is this: that, while the
old man may stand by some stupid custom, the young man always attacks
it with some theory that turns out to be equally stupid."
I hope this is helpful. If anything is unclear or incomplete, or if a
link doesn't work for you, please request clarification; I'll be glad
to offer further assistance before you rate my answer.
Best regards,
pinkfreud |
