Back-info: Currently I have a tattoo on the base of my neck, wolf (ookami) [?]
I've had it for a few years and I love it. But I have been wanting to
add to it lately. It's located at the base of my neck, about even with
my shoulders.


I've been searching through the following links for the symbols to
construct the phrase I want, and I've been trying (unsuccessfully) to
re-learn some of the japenese -specifically, grammar- that I'd picked
up over the years. The following are the three links I can remember
off the top of my head...

http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/jwb/wwwjdic?1C
http://japanese.about.com/
http://japanese.about.com/bltattoo.htm

Which are all well and good for finding individual kanji/hiragana/katakana...

But what I want is a phrase, that I will have tattoo'd down my spine,
incorporating my already existing tattoo.

The phrase I'm looking to express (it doesnt have to be exact) is
along the lines of "Lone wolf walking the path"

I'm also very fond of the variation on that phrase "Lone wolf walking
the path of the/in the moon"
My only reservation with that variation is I'm unsure of any cultural
signifigance in regards to the moon and I don't want to offend anyone
because of poor planning on my part, I also want this to be
grammatically accurate, so if someone who can read it does... I wont
have them pointing out some error I made in translating and I end up
with a permanent mark on my body that's meaningless to me.

Another stipulation: Since I want my already existing tattoo to be
part of this phrase, and I want the phrase to be written down my
spine, it might prove diffcult to impossible to include it in a way
that's gramatically correct.

So... all in all my question is.

Is what I want to do possible and if so, what are some phrases that
meet those requirements and how would I write them?

I just need the ideograms and order of scripting. I can design the
look of the actual tattoo myself.

---

Request for Question Clarification by vorfeed-ga on 08 Oct 2004 15:49 PDT

I speak some Japanese, so I should be able to work out something for
you. When I'm finished, I can check it with a couple of native
speakers I know, to be sure that it's correct. I'll ask them about any
odd or negative connotations "the path of the moon" might have, as
well.

Before I start, though, there is something I wanted to ask:

When you say "path", do you want to express the idea of a physical
path (say, a narrow dirt track or road), or would you rather imply a
spiritual path/one's life's path? For the former, "hosomichi" might
work well. For the latter, maybe "seidou"? Please look these up in the
csse.monash.edu.au dictionary that you linked to, and see what you
think about the aesthetics of these words.

Fortunately, Japanese is a subject-object-verb language, so in a
sentence that's about a wolf, "wolf" will come at the beginning. It
might take some re-phrasing to get the "lone" in there, because "lone
wolf" is usually "ippikiookami", and there's no room for the
characters for "ippiki" above the "ookami" on your back. I think it
should be possible to re-phrase it without getting too ungrammatical,
though.

Please let me know which kind of "path" you prefer, and I'll start
working on some possible tattoo options. I'll try to give you a few
different variations on your phrase, so you can pick whichever one you
like best.

---

Clarification of Question by nycorin-ga on 09 Oct 2004 08:50 PDT

I would rather imply a spiritual path/one's life's path.

Also, as for the placement of the tattoo and regarding space above it..

http://www.bmezine.com/tattoo/A11128/high/kanji.jpg

That's me, and my tattoo. If that helps. There's space above it to add ippiki

Dear nycorin-ga,

I've come up with some possible tattoo ideas for you. I showed a few
different options to a Japanese friend of mine, and this was her favorite:

????????

It's read, "ippikiookami seidou o yuku", and means literally, "A lone
wolf, on the [spiritual] path". 

I asked about any negative cultural connotations that the "path of the
moon" might have, and she couldn't think of anything specific, but she
was still slightly put off by it. She said it sounds a bit strange in
Japanese, so you might want to keep that in mind when deciding whether
or not to use it.

Here's a variation of the same phrase that incorporates "the path of the
moon": 

??????????

It's read, "ippikiookami tsuki no seidou o yuku", and means literally,
"A lone wolf, on the path of the moon". 

?? literally means "to go" rather than "to walk", but in this case, ?
?, "to walk", doesn't work as a verb for ??. ?? is the verb that
best expresses the idea of walking or being on "the path". It's usually
pronounced "iku", but the older, slightly poetic "yuku" sounds best with
this phrase. 

I asked about several possibilities, and ?? was the favored
choice for the "spiritual path" part of this phrase. Be aware that it
can have a Buddhist implication - this word is the "path" of "Eightfold
Path", though it's usually pronounced "shuudou" when used in Buddhism -
so if you'd rather not imply this, you might choose ?? instead. It's
a synonym for ??, but doesn't share the Buddhist meaning. ?? also has a
more general meaning of "the correct spiritual path", so it isn't as if
you'll be usurping a Buddhist term, but I thought I'd be clear about
its religious implication.  

If you choose ??, the phrases would become:

???????? - "ippikiookami seiro o yuku". 

and 

?????????? - "ippikiookami tsuki no seiro o yuku"

I think that either option should make a nice tattoo. Both ??
and ?? have a positive, studious feel to them, and the sound of
"seidou/seiro o yuku" balances nicely with "ippikiookami". 

Below are some additional links to a stroke order diagram for each
character in your tattoo. Proper stroke order is vital to the shape of
kanji and kana, so you might want to show the diagrams to your tattoo
artist, if they're not already familiar with stroke order. 

I hope this helps you in your search for a tattoo design. If you'd like
some clarification on any of these points, please request an Answer
Clarification. I'd be happy to help you. Your question isn't finished
until you're satisfied with my answer, so please don't hesitate to ask!
Thanks for submitting this question!  


Additional Links:

Jim Breen's WWWJDIC - Stroke Order Diagrams - "??":
http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/jwb/wwwhalsod?3341_%B0%EC
http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/jwb/wwwhalsod?2962_%C9%A4

Jim Breen's WWWJDIC - Stroke Order Diagrams - "??":
http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/jwb/wwwhalsod?3484_%C0%B5
http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/jwb/wwwhalsod?3134_%C6%BB

Jim Breen's WWWJDIC - Stroke Order Diagrams - "??":
http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/jwb/wwwhalsod?3484_%C0%B5
http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/jwb/wwwhalsod?1533_%CF%A9

Jim Breen's WWWJDIC - Stroke Order Diagrams - "?"
http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/jwb/wwwhalsod?0212_%B9%D4

Hiragana Writing Tutor (for the stroke order for ?, "o", and ?, "ku"):
http://members.aol.com/writejapan/hiragana/writutor.htm

Shinto and Japanese Buddhist Corner: Photo Gallery of Japanese Buddhist Terms
http://www.onmarkproductions.com/html/shaka.shtml#guidebook


Search Strategy:

Searching for "path" at Jim Breen's WWWJDIC:
http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/jwb/wwwjdic?1C

---

Request for Answer Clarification by nycorin-ga on 13 Oct 2004 11:43 PDT

Wow! That's great! Thanks so much! :)

I just have one final clarification/question about this.

When you say 'spiritual' path, what does that inflect as far as that kanji goes?

I'm not a terribly religious person at all, would identify myself as
agnostic if i had to. I wouldn't want to convey something that was
untrue in a permanent mark on myself.

I guess I should have clarified the spiritual/life path as leaning
more towards life path... i apologize.

---

Clarification of Answer by vorfeed-ga on 13 Oct 2004 13:43 PDT

Both of these words have an accepted secular meaning. The dictionary
entry in my Canon wordtank for "seidou" reads (translated from
Japanese):

"The correct path, or correct reasoning. Also, the proper way of
obeying laws and rules. Correct action."
Canon Wordtank IDF-3000

The entry for "seiro" reads:

"1. The reasoning that people should follow. See 'seidou'. 2. A main street." 
Canon Wordtank IDF-3000

These words are used in secular speech, often in phrases similar to
the English "on the right track in life". None of the dictionaries I
checked mention religion. When I posted my answer, I wanted you to be
aware that "Seidou" is a part of a compound word that's used in
Buddhism, but I don't think that anyone will assume this meaning if
they see your tattoo. The Buddhist meaning is usually expressed in
compound, as ???. The most common meaning of these words is the
secular one, "the proper life path" or "proper way to live".

If the definitions above aren't what you're looking for, please post
another clarification request that elaborates on the qualities you'd
like to express. I'll see if I can find something that's a better fit.
Thanks again!

---

Request for Answer Clarification by nycorin-ga on 13 Oct 2004 14:47 PDT

Hmmn... I'm not sure if this is exactly what I want for a tattoo.

I dont think I'm necessarily on 'the correct path' or am one for
'obeying laws and rules' but not a rebel so much as one trying to find
his own way of fitting into things.

The 'path' that I want to follow, or at least express following would
be akin to what's expressed in this quote...

When I came to the fork in the road, I took the road less traveled and
it made all the difference in my life.
- Robert Frost 

I really dont know how to put it into words necessarily, without
sounding trite or contrived.

Can you perhaps suggest something?

I really appreciate all your help on this! :) You're making my first
Google Answers experience great!

---

Request for Answer Clarification by nycorin-ga on 14 Oct 2004 09:28 PDT

Also, for writing it, going down my spine ...

Which would be the correct way to write it? Seperating each
hash/character or grouping them? (ex. ippiki and yuku)


As such...

ex. 1

??
?
??
?
??

ex. 2

?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?

Rated your answer this morning - thanks so much for all your help!

---

Clarification of Answer by vorfeed-ga on 14 Oct 2004 10:43 PDT

From what you said about Frost's poem, I think it might be fair to say
that you want to take your own path, rather than the "proper" one that
others might choose. If that's the case, perhaps it would be best to
use the literal "path" as a metaphor, just as Frost did.

??????? / ??, "jibun no michi o aruku/ayumu", "walking one's own
path", is a common phrase in Japanese that might work very well with
your tattoo. It uses ?? or ?? , literally "to walk", which is closer
to what you wanted earlier, as well. The former is said "aruku", and
is the usual pronunciation. You could also go with the latter,
"ayumu", which is slightly poetic. I've seen both used with this
phrase, so you can choose whichever you prefer.

If you go with this phrase instead of "seidou"/"seiro", the full
phrase will become:

??????????

"ippikiookami jibun no michi o aruku"

or

??????????

"ippikiookami jibun no michi o ayumu" 

I think these might be a better fit than the earlier choices, based on
your recent clarification. I hope this is closer to what you've been
looking for. Please let me know what you think!

As for the proper way to arrange the characters, it should be as in
your example number two. Japanese can be written either vertically or
horizontally, but you can't mix the two. Each character should be on
its own line when writing vertically, and they should each be written
inside an imaginary box of about the same size. Thus the ? in ??
should have some space above and below it, rather than being too close
to the top of the ?. It might be useful to look at some Japanese
scrolls (kakejiku, "???" or "??") for ideas on spacing.

Kakejikuya 
http://www.rakuten.co.jp/kakejikuya/248360/248387/

Kakejikudou
http://www.rakuten.co.jp/kakejiku/427257/435385/

A Japanese calligraphy book might also be a good resource. Libraries
often have one or more of these, with plenty of examples of vertical
writing.

Introduction to Japanese Calligraphy - Further Reading
http://www.connectedglobe.com/ohmori/intro1.html#s5

Also, as a bit of a bonus, here's a link to a Japanese translation of Frost's poem.

Mitsuharu Matsumoto Laboratory - Wise Sayings
http://www.mm-labo.com/culture/WiseSaying/ma/michiganihonmorinonakanitsuzuiteita.html

Thanks for the rating and the very generous tip! Please leave a
comment if you have any other questions. Thanks again!

You made my first experience with Google answers great. Thank you so
much, I really appreciate it! Did an excellent job with the answer,
thorough and pertinant research.

Thanks for the quick reply. I'll see what I can come up with. It might
take me a couple of days to get it checked by some native speakers, so
please be patient until I get in touch with them. Thanks again for
posting this question!

I've got an answer for you, but before I post it, I had better make
sure that my Japanese encoding is coming through properly: ??

I do believe I'm going to go with ??????????

:) Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

I just have one small question left, if it's not a bother...

If a native speaker were to read the above, what would it mean to them
at face value (I know what it would mean for me) and what is the
literal translation? (Should be a quick answer)

Thanks again!

-K

I'd have to ask a native speaker about it, to answer your first
question properly. If I were to guess, though, I'd think they'd
probably peg you as a "going my way" type - someone who doesn't always
follow the crowd, but instead looks for his or her own way of doing
things.

If you're worried about what a native speaker would think of it, the
best thing to do would be to check it with some native speakers before
you get the tattoo. Maybe there's a Japanese language department at a
college you could check with? If not, let me know, and I can show it
around to a few people I know.

As for the literal meaning, it's "A lone wolf, walking his own path."
??, "jibun", means "one's own", and ?, "michi", is a road, path, way,
or method. ?? / ?? means "to walk".