I forgot Halloween candle burning on the kitchen counter top and went
for a car wash yesterday. Upon return I found fire in the kitchen that
has damaged counter top and cabinet. I do not have renters or home
owner's insurance. The fire report indicates that the fire was caused
by a burning candle.

The apartment management declined to make a claim against their
insurance. They said that I am liable for the fire caused by my
negligence. They would not give me an estimate, but said that they
have a standard contractor who will replace the parts and paint. The
cost is estimated between $2000 to $10000. The exact figure will come
in once contractor sends-in the receipt to the management. The manager
would not give me a copy of their comprehensive liability coverage.

Questions
1. Am I really liable for this payment? What are my options.
2. Can I negotiate for the depreciated value of the property as opposed to
   paying for the new one
3. Should I hire an attorney? Would that be called a civil defense attorney?
4. Should I retain good terms with the management or give them a notice to
   force them to give me an estimate and a copy of their liability insurance.

Dear tinypatient-ga;

Thank you for allowing me an opportunity to answer your interesting
question. You understand of course that we cannot offer legal advice
in this forum so I am offering you the best that can be hoped for ? an
unbiased, reasonable, honest opinion:

?Am I really liable for this payment? What are my options??

Whether you the legally bound to compensate the owner for damages
caused by the incident or not depends on your contract. If you have no
contract then only a civil court could determine for certain whether
or not you have a financial responsibility to restore the apartment to
it?s former condition. Your options are to:

Do nothing and take a chance on being sued (if you are sued you take a
chance on winning or losing the suit and/or being evicted)

Pay the owner the full amount he requests you to pay

Negotiate with the owner for a lesser amount (if he?s willing)

Negotiate to pay the damages on some kind of installment plan (if he?s willing)

Get your own estimate from different contractor and offer to pay him
that amount, or an amount somewhere between his estimate and the one
you obtained.

Having allegations against you that you were negligent in your actions
and having an official investigation that basically confirms this,
places you at a serious disadvantage in terms of what you can and
cannot do. In most cases you would be civilly liable for the damages
but again, that depends on what kind of agreement or understanding you
had with the property owner beforehand. If you had no agreement or
understanding, a civil court would probably favor the property owner
(based on what you described happened) and the question might not be
SHOULD you pay, but HOW MUCH.



?Can I negotiate for the depreciated value of the property as opposed
to paying for the new one??

You can, but only if he is willing. This type of ?out of court?
settlement is limited only to what both parties agree to. If the owner
is not willing to negotiate, you obviously cannot choose this option.
If you end up going to court, however, you might be able to persuade a
judge (or jury) that the apartment was in a serious state of disrepair
BEFORE the fire and that you have no problem compensating the owner
for damages if they are calculated taking into consideration
depreciation. This may or may not be productive but it certainly can?t
hurt to try it.


?Should I hire an attorney? Would that be called a civil defense attorney??

Yes, this type of attorney is called a Civil Attorney. By your own
admission you were negligent by leaving the candle burning unattended.
I personally think you?d have a hard time defending this action in the
event of a lawsuit, but what you might achieve through a lawyer that
you might not be able to achieve on your own is an agreeable
settlement for significantly less than the actual estimate of damages.
In other words, your attorney might be able to negotiate something
agreeable FOR you, or perhaps negotiate with the owner?s attorney
should he decide to hire one. In addition, an attorney might be able
to negotiate some type of payment plan that will allow you to pay for
the damages over time. Finally, your attorney (should you hire one)
might even be able to find some solution that will help you get out of
this mess without having to pay the owner anything at all. It might be
that an attorney can convince the homeowner to make the claim against
his insurance and allow you to pay only the deductible (which my be
considerably less than the actual damages).

The bottom line is, you never know what an attorney might discover. He
might discover that the property owner did not have insurance (as
required by law perhaps) or that the property owner was negligent for
not having fire alarms or sprinklers or some other serious violation
that might convince the property owner to just forget the whole thing.

Should you hire one?  I would, if I were you. 

?Should I retain good terms with the management or give them a notice
to force them to give me an estimate and a copy of their liability
insurance.?

If you hire an attorney you should really let him do the talking for
you and refrain from speaking the owner about the matter. If you
decide not to hire an attorney, by al means it would be best if you
remained on good terms with the owner. At this point he really holds
the cards so making him angry or having some kind of conflict with him
will only exacerbate the problem.


I hope you find that my research exceeds your expectations. If you
have any questions about my research please post a clarification
request prior to rating the answer. Otherwise, I welcome your rating
and your final comments and I look forward to working with you again
in the near future. Thank you for bringing your question to us.

Best regards;
Tutuzdad ? Google Answers Researcher

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Clarification of Answer by tutuzdad-ga on 18 Oct 2004 20:08 PDT

One other thing that I did not address:

??or give them a notice to force them to give me an estimate and a
copy of their liability insurance.?

This would defintnely be an issue that you?d need to consult an
attorney about. You may not be able to ?force them? for give you a
copy, but you may be able to subpoena it from them through the courts
if they try to sue you. As I said, it may be that the property owner
is bluffing with this ?insurance? issue and he may not have any. You?d
probably have to discover this through legal avenues that it would be
best to have an attorney handle for you.

Regards;
Tutuzdad-ga

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Request for Answer Clarification by tinypatient-ga on 29 Oct 2004 21:52 PDT

Thank you for the answer. Here is some twist to the puzzle. 

To my favor the neighbor has testified that he did call the apartment
manager and emergency contacts at the first time of alarm when he was
not sure which apartment's alarm was screaming. It was 1 PM and the
management should have been on duty. A number of calls to the
management went unanswered. He called fire dept. when the smoke
started coming out of the door 1.5 hours later. Had the maintenance or
management were available, the fire could be contained much sooner.

I am also seeing a Civil Defense Attorney for the first time on Monday
before sending
1. request to get estimates
2. testimony of the neighbor

The questions that I have are
1. After 12 days the apartment still smess of smoke
   and the suit is all over the carpet. Although the 
   management has managed to get new cabinet and painted
   the walls, they want me to be responsible to get the
   carpet Oxi-cleaned, and clean the rest of the mess. I
   assume this will cost around $300. Wonder if I should
   move out of the place and fight over the expenses. The
   place as it is - is not only a mess, probably harmful 
   with breathing the carbon from suit.
2. Should I engage the lawyer in sending the letter that
   I am going to send.
3. The management is now bargaining and want me to be
   responsible for the price between 2k to 3k range. Wonder
   if I should try to get out of it completely with the
   help of the neighbor's testimony to my defense.
4. What would I lose if I wait for another week in filing
   the papers? I am waiting for the report from the fire
   dept. which typically takes 2 weeks to give the fire report.
   I think I would seek an attorney with all the documents.

Thanks

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Clarification of Answer by tutuzdad-ga on 30 Oct 2004 07:28 PDT

Again, I?ll offer my opinion, not legal advice, because that?s all I
can really do by policy:

If you are hoping to lay part of the blame on a neighbor, whose
responsibility you perceive it was to report the alarm and smoke in a
timely manner, I fear you are using a doomed strategy. It?s comforting
to know that you have responsible neighbors who would act reasonably
in an emergency but the fact that he did not does not make him share
the negligence. In my opinion, a jury would not even consider your
neighbor?s actions when determining fault and culpability and you
would ultimately be saddled with any (all) the blame, if the jury
finds in favor of the apartment owner/manager.

In short ? bad strategy (in my opinion)

Whether you should move or not is up to you. If you think you can live
there comfortably while this legal action is going on ? stay. If you
think the residue from the fire is harmful to you ? move.

Again, whether you obtain a lawyer to handle your affairs in an
official capacity is up to you (I would, if I were you, but that?s
just my opinion). If you do obtain a lawyer, by all means you should
charge him with the responsibility of delivering your letter.

I think that if the management is now bargaining with you they may
suspect that the amount they were originally asking for was excessive.
Whether or not you pay the new amount they are willing to accept for
the damages should depend on how much your independent estimate ends
up being from your own independent appraisal.

As for waiting, you should definitely get the fire report. I would
recommend you consult an attorney and let him see if he can speed up
this process because the longer you wait the more the owner/management
can spend in repairs. If, in the end, you are found negligent and
responsible, you may get stuck with bills that you otherwise might not
have had to pay.

Short of this additional information, this seems like all I can
reasonably offer you.

I look forward to your rating and final comments. Thank you for
bringing your question to us.

Regards;
Tutuzdad-ga

Thank you for your time in research and helpful tips.