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Q: Famous Quote ( Answered 5 out of 5 stars,   1 Comment )
Question  
Subject: Famous Quote
Category: Reference, Education and News
Asked by: dtnl42-ga
List Price: $10.00
Posted: 20 Oct 2004 00:06 PDT
Expires: 18 Nov 2004 23:06 PST
Question ID: 417387
I am looking for a well-known story of an ancient warrior who
consulted a sage and asked if he should take his army across a sea to
invade another nation - the guru replied that if he did this a great
nation would be destroyed. So he invaded, and a great nation was
indeed destroyed, his own! - Any help on sources and quotes for this
would be appreciated.
Answer  
Subject: Re: Famous Quote
Answered By: pinkfreud-ga on 20 Oct 2004 01:57 PDT
Rated:5 out of 5 stars
 
The ironic story to which you refer concerns the Oracle at Delphi in
ancient Greece. Like many fortunetellers in legend, the
representatives of the Greek god Apollo sometimes delivered prophecies
which were subject to misinterpretation. The word "delphic," meaning
"ambiguous or obscure," is a reference to the often enigmatic
prophecies of the Delphic Oracle.

One ruler who consulted the oracle was Croesus, whose kingdom, Lydia,
was located in an area that is now part of the nation of Turkey.
Croesus was worried that his rival, Cyrus of Persia, was a threat to
him, and he sent messengers to Delphi to ask the oracle for guidance.
The oracle said that crossing the river Halys and battling Cyrus would
cause a great empire to be destroyed. Croesus wrongly assumed that the
"great empire" which would fall would be that of his enemy.

The story of Croesus and the oracle comes to us from the Greek historian Herodotus.

"Herodotus 1.92: Croesus sends messengers to Delphi. 

It is said that when the Lydian messengers reached Delphi and asked
the questions they had been told to ask, the Priestess replied that
not God himself could escape destiny. As for Croesus, he had expiated
in the fifth generation the crime of his ancestor, who was a soldier
in the bodyguard of the Heraclids, and, tempted by a woman's
treachery, had murdered his master and stolen his office, to which he
had no claim. The God of Prophecy was eager that the fall of Sardis
might occur in the time of Croesus' sons rather than in his own, but
he had been unable to divert the course of destiny. Nevertheless what
little the Fates allowed, he had obtained for Croesus' advantage: he
had postponed the capture of Sardis for three years, so Croesus must
realize that he had enjoyed three years of freedom more than was
appointed for him. Secondly, the god had saved him when he was on the
pyre. As to the oracle, Croesus had no right to find fault with it:
the gods had declared that if he attacked the Persians he would bring
down a mighty empire. After an answer like that, the wise thing would
have been to send again to inquire which empire was meant, Cyrus' or
his own. But as he misinterpreted what was said and made no second
inquiry, he must admit the fault to have been his own."

University of Texas: Example of a Passage Analysis 
http://www.utexas.edu/courses/clubmed/examsourceanal.html

If you'd like to go to the source, here you can read the lengthy tale
of Croesus, as recorded by Herodotus in 440 BCE:

The History of Herodotus (Translated by George Rawlinson)
http://classics.mit.edu/Herodotus/history.1.i.html

Some briefer summations:

"Delphi was a major Panhellenic shrine, as important as the Temple of
Zeus at Olympia. At both places there were great athletic contests
held every four years. The oracle at Delphi was famous, and people
from all over the Mediterranean (not just Greeks) would come to Delphi
and ask the priests there to make predictions about the future...

The Lydian ruler, Croesus, sent someone to Delphi to ask how his war
with Cyrus would go -- the answer, 'if you proceed, a great power will
be destroyed.' Unfortunately, Croesus thought it would be the other
great power."

Johnson County Community College: Apollo
http://staff.jccc.net/bnorcott/M&Lchapters/nine.htm

"Visitors posed queries to Apollo ranging from the personal ('Should I
plant more olive trees?') to serious matters of state. Apollo's answer
was heard by a designated priestess who incoherently mumbled it out
loud. Delphi priests would then translate the prophecy for the eagerly
waiting pilgrim.

The answer (oracle) was often purposely ambiguous to minimize the
chances of it being wrong. For example, the reply to a king's 'Should
my country battle the Persians?' query was 'A great kingdom will be
destroyed.' He interpreted this to mean the Persian kingdom. It turned
out it was his that was destroyed."

Hillman Wonders of the World: Delphi
http://www.hillmanwonders.com/delphi/delphi.htm

"In many of these cases the oracles' predictions are Delphic or
ambiguous and open to diverse interpretations by human actors. King
Croesus of Lydia is told by the Pythoness of Delphi that if he goes to
war with the Persians a great kingdom will be destroyed. He went to
war and a great kingdom was destroyed, Lydia."

Foreign Military Studies Publications: THE RUSSIAN MILITARY AND THE
REVOLUTION IN MILITARY AFFAIRS: A CASE OF THE THE ORACLE OF DELPHI OR
CASSANDRA?
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/russia/agency/rusrma.htm

"Cyrus the Great of Persia, extending his vast domains, was soon
threatening the kingdom of Lydia. Croesus consulted the oracle of
Delphi in Greece. The oracle replied: 'If Croesus goes to war he will
destroy a great empire.' So Croesus went out to meet the army of Cyrus
and was utterly defeated, he destroyed his own great empire."

All About Turkey: Croesus
http://www.allaboutturkey.com/croesus.htm

Google search strategy:

Google Web Search: croesus halys oracle delphi
://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=croesus+halys+oracle+delphi

Google Web Search: croesus oracle herodotus
://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=croesus+oracle+herodotus

I hope this is helpful. If anything is unclear or incomplete, please
request clarification; I'll be glad to offer further assistance before
you rate my answer.

Best regards,
pinkfreud
dtnl42-ga rated this answer:5 out of 5 stars

Comments  
Subject: Re: Famous Quote
From: fp-ga on 20 Oct 2004 00:30 PDT
 
Kingdom of Lydia. But the army was not taken "across the sea".

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