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Subject:
Why is modern classical music bereft of melody?
Category: Arts and Entertainment > Music Asked by: nautico-ga List Price: $5.00 |
Posted:
27 Oct 2004 07:15 PDT
Expires: 28 Oct 2004 08:50 PDT Question ID: 420695 |
Why haven't modern classical music composers included more melody in their works? So many of them are atonal or border on the atonal, beginning with those of Bartok, Mahler, and Stravinsky, then more recently with Hindemith, Ives, and Cage. Why is it that these modern composers have eschewed the "pleasantness" of melody, striving instead for what sounds like little more than discord? The result is music that hardly seems muse-inspired, but is instead a challenge to one's intellectual grasp without any regard to sheer emotional joy. (Modern art strikes me the same way, but that's another question.) |
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There is no answer at this time. |
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Subject:
Re: Why is modern classical music bereft of melody?
From: efn-ga on 27 Oct 2004 08:02 PDT |
In the sociology of fine art, innovation is valued. Part of the game is figuring out the rules so you can break them. Writing music like Beethoven and Mozart did is old hat, it's been done, and a composer would get no credit for brilliant, ground-breaking innovation by mining that old vein. Losing the mass audience in the process is an acceptable consequence, if not further proof of the work's advanced quality. |
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Re: Why is modern classical music bereft of melody?
From: nautico-ga on 27 Oct 2004 08:36 PDT |
Innovation for the sake of itself is admirable? I have the sense that modern composers lack what it would take to "compete" successfully with the likes of Chopin and Tchaikovsky, just as modern painters would probably fall short if they tried to emulate Rembrandt, Renoir, Leonardo, and Michelangelo. I would also take issue with the notion that losing the mass audience is a good thing or that it implies "advanced quality." Narrowing the audience to an elite sector of afficianados would seem no accomplishment. |
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Re: Why is modern classical music bereft of melody?
From: pinkfreud-ga on 27 Oct 2004 08:47 PDT |
There are people who dearly love nonmelodious music. A former friend of mine, who was very sophisticated musically, and was a classically-trained pianist, went into raptures over the works of Charles Ives. He also loved Mahler dearly. While I can appreciate some of these composers' works, I reach the saturation point very quickly; my friend could listen to this sort of thing all day, every day for the rest of his life and be happy. Different strokes for different folks, eh? Or, in this case, different tunes for different loons. |
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Re: Why is modern classical music bereft of melody?
From: nautico-ga on 27 Oct 2004 09:11 PDT |
Pink, I've always had the sense that folks (or loons) who revel in atonal music are proud of their capacity to appreciate its putative complexity and for that reason alone find enjoyment in listening to such crapola. It's the elitist posturing of self-annointed sophisticates that says to the rest of us "There's no wonder you don't enjoy it. How could you, when you don't understand it?" |
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Re: Why is modern classical music bereft of melody?
From: pinkfreud-ga on 27 Oct 2004 09:14 PDT |
I dunno. I tried to tell my friend that the Emperor had no clothes, but then I realized that he was genuinely keen on naked Emperors. |
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Re: Why is modern classical music bereft of melody?
From: nautico-ga on 27 Oct 2004 09:17 PDT |
I had an uncle who was principal trombonist in Toscanini's NBC Symphony Orchestra. When I asked him what he thought of such modern compositions, he replied "We played whatever the maestro told us to play, but I can tell you it hurt my ears." |
Subject:
Re: Why is modern classical music bereft of melody?
From: pinkfreud-ga on 27 Oct 2004 09:26 PDT |
Well, your uncle was no doubt aware that being a professional trombonist has its ins and outs. You just have to learn to let it slide. :-D |
Subject:
Re: Why is modern classical music bereft of melody?
From: nautico-ga on 27 Oct 2004 09:28 PDT |
"...let it slide." <GROAN> :) |
Subject:
Re: Why is modern classical music bereft of melody?
From: byrd-ga on 27 Oct 2004 13:20 PDT |
When I saw this question, I couldn't resist passing it along to a musician of my acquaintance. He's a composer of modern classical music with lots of awards under his belt, as well as a professor of music at a university in the southeastern US. His background includes advanced degrees from upper crust and Ivy League schools, including Doctor of Music (the music version of a Ph.D.) He's also just a very cool and interesting guy, with experience in music stretching back to early childhood. I thought his comments on this question were worth passing along, so here they are (with permission): "It's certainly a question I get asked pretty frequently! The short, short, short answer is that so-called "modern" music is not *all* "bereft of melody." (Besides, most of the composers the questioner names wrote music 60-100 years ago; not exactly current music.) "Here's a question to consider: "What would you say to a friend who almost never watches anything other than silent film, and after seeing a new film for the first time in many years says, 'Why are all modern movies bereft of a clear narrative?'" Would you agree and say "Yes, all film in the past 80 years is elitist garbage?" "It's an old axiom that people like what they know and know what they like. But in the "modern music" concert series I run, I present lots of different kinds of new work, and I tell people it's perfectly ok if they don't like everything on the program, any more than they'd have to like every movie they ever see. "But guess what happens in the concerts . . . people really like some pieces that they've never heard before, they sign up for the mailing list, they keep coming back to the concerts, and some even donate money to the series. I present the music without any elitist, snobby trappings, and we now have over 300 loyal audience members for every concert. And many, many people of all age groups tell me, "Wow, I never even knew this kind of music existed; it's really cool!" "Anyway, I'll just keep writing my own music the best that I can, and hope that some folks like it. Additional comment: "By the way, here's another thought to add: What would that same person who loves Beethoven and Bach say to a high school kid who thinks ALL classical music is difficult, snobby, and/or devoid of a good, catchy hook or decent lyric (not to mention that those damn symphonies are sooooo long and boring!)? "And as for me personally, I like lots of different kinds of food; same for music. Some days, I'll make chicken or bake some fish, some days I'll want Indian or Thai takeout (my favs), and other days I just gotta have a burger and beer. I couldn't imagine a diet with just one kind of food. Not all music is for everyone, but I think people should just try to keep an open mind and not lump *everything* into a junk pile because they didn't enjoy their first exposure to something (whose title they probably couldn't recall if asked). "I love pretty much anything Beethoven, Bach, and Mozart ever wrote (and I know A LOT of their music), but I also love (not in any particular order) Hank Williams, John Coltrane, the Beatles, Charlie Parker, Louis Armstrong, Stravinsky, Bill Evans, music from Bali, Astor Piazzola's tangos, Ives, the Bartok string quartets, Steve Reich's "Eighteen Musicians," Poul Ruders, John Cage's music for "Prepared Piano," Harry Partch, Mahler, Berg, Josquin, north Indian ragas, throat-singing from Tuuva, Sacred Harp singing, Ralph Stanley, Johnny Cash, the Anthology of American Folk Music, Radiohead's "Ok Computer," Stevie Ray Vaughn, Blind Lemon Jefferson, Schubert's "C Major Quintet," Duke Ellington, and the list goes on and on and on and on . . . "My point is, I like lots of different kinds of music, all of which has enriched my life by an incredible measure. I just don't care about labels like classical, world, blues, jazz, pop, country, avant-garde, dissonant, consonant, etc. It's all just good "music" to me. And some of it, I didn't like very much the first time I heard it, but now I couldn't imagine a world without it. :-) "Anyway, I wish the Google questioners lots of happy listening!!" And I join him in wishing everyone the same! --Byrd-ga |
Subject:
Re: Why is modern classical music bereft of melody?
From: nautico-ga on 27 Oct 2004 14:10 PDT |
Byrd, I enjoyed, appreciated, and understood your friend's comments. That said, I think that modern (and I include the last 100 years or so) composers studiously avoid melody or repeating themes and for reasons I don't pretend to understand. They seem to revel in cacophony, but why? To shock? To challenge? BTSOM! :) |
Subject:
Re: Why is modern classical music bereft of melody?
From: tehuti-ga on 27 Oct 2004 15:35 PDT |
This perhaps also raises the question of how one defines melody. I think there is a vastly subjective element there. For example, Pink mentioned Mahler as being nonmelodious, but to me his work is full of the most luscious melodies. While I'd probably agree in finding very avant-garde composers difficult, I do think many modern composers come up with glorious melodies, although perhaps the structure of these melodies can be somewhat complex. Some relatively modern composers (i.e. did not die before the 20th century), whom I find to be melodious at least some of the time: Mahler, Sibelius, Bernstein (the solo in the Chichester Psalms - melt!), Schoenberg (esp Verklaerte Nacht and Gurrelieder), Tippett, Britten, Weil (as in the Brecht/Weil songs), Holst, Ravel, Vaughan Williams, Villa Lobos. |
Subject:
Re: Why is modern classical music bereft of melody?
From: markj-ga on 27 Oct 2004 16:21 PDT |
Using tehuti-ga's definition of modern (which I think is a useful one), I would add Debussy to his list. His familiar Claire de Lune has an undeniably beautiful melody. One could also include the familiar theme of Prelude to the Afternoon of a Faun as a haunting melody, although it portends the future with its lack of a tonal center and its constantly shifting rhythm. And Richard Strauss could turn out beautiful melodies from time to time (Four Last Songs, e.g.). markj-ga |
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