This is going to be a top-of-the-head question for somebody, not a big
research question.

If my car dashboard lights have gone out, is that going to be a big-deal repair?

Note that I am not asking for a diagnosis or for repair advice
(although any hints or suggestions are welcome!).  I just want to know
if it's going to hurt a little or a lot when I take it in.  I have no
idea what kind of problem this is.

Thank you,
Archae0pteryx

---

Clarification of Question by archae0pteryx-ga on 30 Oct 2004 22:34 PDT

While I was driving home tonight, with a little flashlight in my hand,
all the lights suddenly popped back on:  speedometer, gauges, clock,
heater, shift, everything.  They all came on at once.  I wasn't
touching anything but the steering wheel at the time.

So now what do you think?

archae0pteryx-ga:

Thanks for the offer for me to post an Answer. As you can probably
tell, troubleshooting automotive problems is a bit of a hobby for me,
and I can get way too detail-oriented (and rambling) when I attempt to
write about it.

Buried in the Comments section is a post where I mentioned that the
online, aftermarket price for a replacement dimmer switch suitable for
a Nissan Altima like yours is around $42 USD. The dealer price will be
more of course, but should not be astronomically more. Here's a link
to an online price:

http://www.trademotion.com/partlocator/index.cfm?action=getLocator&siteid=49&chapter=APF600&appSectionid=3&groupid=10009&subgroupid=20137&componentid=60856&make=25&model=Altima&year=1997&catalogid=1

(I used 1997 arbitrarily as the model year, but the pricing is close
for the other model years from 1993 through to the present).

Hope the dealer pricing (after labor) wasn't too painful. They should
not charge you more than one hour of labor for this, even including
diagnostic time.

Regards,

aht-ga
Google Answers Researcher

Terrific, aht, good job.  Thank you.

The mechanic at the local Shell station quoted me $55 for the part and
about $40 to install.  (Might have been so easy because I went in with
a ready diagnosis, thanks to you!)  By contrast, the Nissan dealership
wanted $95 just to run tests before even starting any work.  So I
think I got off easy on this one.

Archae0pteryx

Did you check the car's fusebox? A burnt-out fuse is a mighty cheap
and easy thing to fix.

http://www.ehow.com/how_112731_fix-dashboard-lights.html

Most likely cause is a bad fuse. Hope this link helps!

As pinkfreud's mentioned, the most likely culprit is a burnt-out fuse
if ALL of your dashboard lights went out. Depending on the vehicle,
the instrument panel backlighting can be on a separate fuse from the
rest of the interior lighting. In most cases, though, anything that
can be dimmed using the interior light dimmer will be on a single
fuse. So, if by "dashboard lights" you mean all of the backlighting
for all of the interior controls (instrument panel, heat/air controls)
are out, then go straight to the interior fusebox in the car. If, on
the other hand, it is JUST the instrument panel lights that are out
(ie. the interior dimmer still causes the other lights in the interior
to dim and brighten as you adjust it), then it indicates either a
broken wire to the instrument panel (that wire being part of a wire
bundle, so low probability), or a loose connection on the instrument
panel. Again, depending on the vehicle, there are usually more than a
single light source in an instrument panel meaning that if a bulb were
burnt out inside the panel, the rest would still light.

In saying all this, I'm presuming that you already checked your dimmer
switch to see if it is not accidentally dimmed all the way down?

aht-ga
Google Answers Researcher

All interior lights out:  yes.  I can't see the speedometer, the
instrument gauges, the gear I'm in, anything.  Was a little dicey
backing out of a parking spot and driving home, not too sure which way
the car was going to go after shifting.

Dimmer switch:  yes, checked that first thing.  Max to min, no light. 
But the overhead light still works--I don't consider that to be any
relation.

Fuses:  aha.  Never had to do that before.  Hmm.  Um, there must be a
clue to that someplace around here.  I'll explore.  Pink and aht,
thanks for the hints.  And samirdastinky, thanks for the how-to!  More
later.

Tryx

Sounds like it is definitely the fuse, then. For most cars sold in
N.America since the 80's, the interior lighting fuse can be found in a
fuse panel located in the driver's side kick panel, often labeled
"INSTRUMENT" or "INSTR". This can be a 5A or 10A fuse. Normally, fuses
blow due to an over-current condition; however, sometimes fuses just
get old and blow on their own when you first turn on the load (the
interior lights in this case) and the in-rush current flows through
the fuse.

Good luck with it!

aht-ga
Google Answers Researcher

Dash lites all out, rest of interior ok?

check your tail lites in back of car
the stop or turn signals

its designd as a warning to tell you since you dont easily see them

This often happens when a woman hangs her handbag (or some such) on
one of those little knob things on the dash.

Worth checking!

It is a good idea to check your battery.

This is typically a black box about the size of a 12-pack of Coke and
it is usually stashed under the hood.

It should have two thick cables connected to it.

If the battery is missing or if one of the cables has become
disconnected or broken then this could give rise to the problem you
are experiencing.

OMG Tryxie!!!

This is too wierd. I have the same problem!!!!

My dashboard lights go out and come back on again at differnet
intervals. I took my car to the mechanics a few weeks ago and they
said they can't find the problem. They tested everything. It seems to
help if I *fiddle* with the  light control thingy. The dashboard light
comes back on again if I do that.

Sorry I can't help more but this seems to be my "solution"

BTW, what kind of a car do you have? Mine's a Honda.

Steph 53

Both reported cases may indeed be caused by Chronic Dashboardnolitus,
as diagnosed by my learned colleage.

However, in the case of Steph53-ga, the possibility of the cause being
a Christmas Tree should not be ruled out without further tests.

If equipped with flickering lights, such an object might well display
similar symptoms to those reported.

>>>
Dash lites all out, rest of interior ok?

check your tail lites in back of car
the stop or turn signals

its designd as a warning to tell you since you dont easily see them
>>>

Realy!! if the fuses blow for the stop lites, or parking or turn they
all kill the dash lites oo on most cars.  itsa safety warning to keep
you from driving nites with a unlit rear of the car

GO TO automotiveforchicks.com AND GET AN ANSWER ONLINE FROM THEIR
EXPERTS FOR $25 PREPAID. THEY CAN ZERO IN AND DIAGNOSE DIFFICULTIES
WITH YOUR VEHICLE AND RETURN WITH AN ANSWER WITHIN 72 HOURS.

WHAT MODEL AND WHAT CAT DO YOU HAVE?

Thanks to all who've offered helpful replies.

All the dashboard lights are off, and those in the automatic gear
shift (which is not in the dashboard), but not the taillights,
backing-up lights, or rear signals.  I checked them all, and thanks
for the tip.

I drive an Altima.

I consulted the handbook and couldn't find out which fuse to pull, so
I called my Nissan dealer.  He said that if all the dashboard lights
are out, it's not a fuse.  It could be a faulty dimmer switch, a
disconnected wire, or something else.  Looks like I'm going to have to
take it in.

So, back to my original question, what is the *magnitude* of the
problem likely to be?--a big deal or a little deal?

Thanks,
Archae0pteryx

P.S.  My cat is a domestic shorthair, 1990 model, sort of beige.  And
I'm not a chick, but thanks anyway.

A 1990 cat, huh?

Well at 14, you have to face up to it that she's getting a bit long in the tooth.

I know it's tough to lose an old friend but I would be inclined to
give her a lethal injection.

I am sure that a suitable replacement can be found. In fact, if you go
to Tulsa, you could take your pick.

And there, they would also pay you for your trouble!

archae0pteryx-ga:

Not sure why the dealer would tell you unequivocably that it can't be
a fuse, since as I mentioned in my first comment, if a light is
dimmable using the dimmer switch, then its power comes through the
same fuse as any other dimmable light... and if all of the dimmable
lights (and only the dimmable lights) are out, then it still could be
a fuse.

Since the lights all magically came back on, there's a limited number
of possibilities, most of which are relatively cheap:

It could be a loose fuse (as opposed to a burnt-out one), net effort
required to fix amounts to opening the driver's side door, getting
down on one's knees, opening up the fuse box door (driver's side left
kick panel), and re-seating the fuse. Almost not worth the effort to
fill out the paperwork (depends on your dealer of course... some can
be very vulture-like).

It could be a loose connection at the dimmer switch; there's typically
a three- to six-wire connector plugged into the back of the dimmer
switch, and if this connection is loose then indeed all dimmable
lights will be disconnected. I don't have an Altima handy at the
moment to double-check, but for most Japanese cars this is a three- to
five-minute fix that consists of reaching up into the back of the dash
to get to the connector, and wiggling it to see if the lights go on
and off.

It could be a broken/semi-broken wire at either the fusebox or the
dimmer switch connector. In either case, this can be annoyingly
difficult to diagnose, so a total fix can be up to an hour of
technician time.

It could be a broken/semi-broken dimmer switch, which would take a few
minutes to diagnose, and assuming the part is available in stock, five
minutes to replace.

Actual cost will depend on your dealer's labour rates. If a
replacement part is needed, the most expensive would be a dimmer
switch at an aftermarket list price of about $42 USD.


I would suggest checking for a loose fuse yourself (its the 10 Amp one
marked 'METER'), before visiting the dealer.

aht-ga
Google Answers Researcher

Thanks for all your additional suggestions, aht.

Since the lights were out again tonight, I have made one further
observation.  As noted, the dashboard clock is dark along with
everything else that should be lighted.  That is to say, lights that
should come on when I turn on my headlights do not come on, including
the clock.  But the dashboard clock is on *until* I turn on my
headlights, and then the clock goes dark along with everything else
that doesn't light at all.

Obviously the clock light works, by whatever powers it, and it loses
power when the headlights come on.  So whatever powers it by itself is
not faulty.  Doesn't the fact that the light goes out when I turn on
the headlights point to some sort of clue?  Maybe something that is
secondarily controlled by the headlights switch?

With your additional guidance on the fuses, I will try that approach
in daylight, even though the man at the service desk did say quite
unequivocally that if all the lights are out, it is not a fuse. 
Failing that, you are causing me to hope it is the dimmer switch,
which doesn't sound too bad.  But would that
hypothesis explain the clock phenomenon?

Archae0pteryx

Thats what happens to me Tryx...

Sometimes they come on and then go off for no reason. Other times, I
drive with them off and suddenly, lo & behold, they come back on
again!!!
Try fiddling with brightness switch. That works for me sometimes to
get the lights to come back on again.

Steph53

That's sounding more and more like a faulty dimmer switch, then. 

Here's a high-level walkthrough (as the electroncs fly) for how the
backlight in the clock works.

Electricity from your battery/alternator goes first to a fusebox
located in your engine compartment, then to a fusebox in the driver's
side left kick panel. In this second fusebox, power is distributed
through individual fuses to all of the major electrical systems on the
"inside" of the vehicle. This includes the engine management computer,
your audio system, the climate control blower, other accessories, and
the low-wattage lights (the headlights receive their power from the
fusebox in the engine compartment; a relay is used to control them
with the headlight switch).

When your ignition keyswitch is the ON position, certain lighting will
already be active (this varies from car to car). The clock in your car
is one such device. When the interior instrument lighting is NOT
intended to be on, the clock will receive full voltage power to light
it up. In the majority of vehicles, this power actually flows through
the headlight switch, through a set of wires that are connected
together when the headlight switch is in the OFF position. Often, the
wire will actually go first to the dimmer switch, so that it can be
connected to the same wire that the dimmed power flows through.

When you turn the headlight switch to the first position, where your
'running lights' (also referred to as 'parking lights') come on, the
original power flow to the clock's backlight will be interrupted, and
instead power flows from the headlight swtich, to the dimmer in the
dimmer switch, then to the interior lights.

If the dimmer itself is faulty, then the situation you described is
very likely to occur; the clock backlight will be on when your
ignition switch is ON and the headlight switch is OFF, then when you
turn the headlight switch to either the PARK or HEAD position, the
clock backlight is off due to the faulty dimmer. The fault in the
dimmer might be sensitive to vibrations and jarring, or temperature.
So, in the right conditions, power might be able to make it through
the dimmer switch.

If it is indeed the dimmer switch, then it will need to be replaced.
You can try what steph53-ga suggested, rotating the switch back and
forth a few times to see if it reconnects. You can also try gently
banging the dash near the switch to see if the jarring causes it to
reconnect. Either method, though, will only demonstrate whether or not
the dimmer switch is faulty. The best test is to actually test the
switch using the appropriate equipment (like a multimeter), something
best left to the technicians at the dealership.

aht-ga

aht-ga, even though this was not a diagnostic guessing game but a
request for a look ahead to the scale of the likely repair, you have
supplied the most information and also apparently a correct analysis
of my little problem.  The mechanic says it is the dimmer switch, and
he made it come on again temporarly by pulling it halfway out and
beating on it.  Parts are on order and will be in next week.

(I did try the suggested fiddling with the dimmer switch before I ever
posted the question.)

So why don't you consider this one yours, for what it's worth?

Thank you,
Archae0pteryx

I'm having the same problem and was wondering how much it was to fix. 
I'll check fuses, etc. tomorrow.

Thanks.

Hi, Praisecrow,

The mechanic at the Shell station around the corner charged me about
$55 for the part and $40 for the labor.  Because the unit was already
pulled halfway out, it took under three minutes to install the new
switch.  I watched him do it.

As it happens, my Nissan dealership had quoted me $95 just to diagnose
the problem.  Glad I didn't go there.

Archae0pteryx