The following phrase is an English translation from a religious text
originally written in Arabic about 150 years ago:  "Ye have been
forbidden to commit murder or adultery, or to engage in backbiting or
calumny; shun ye, then, what hath been prohibited in the Holy Books
and tablets.?

The translation appears at
www.bahai-library.com/provisionals/aqdas/aqdas019-021.html

The original text in Arabic, so I understand, appears at
http://reference.bahai.org/ar/t/b/KA/ka-41.html

I am only interested in a one single word of the translation, which is
the word ?adultery?.  [The English word adultery meaning a married
person having sexual intercourse with someone other than their husband
or wife.]

A knowledgeable interpreter has written that the original word
used in the Arabic is ?zina?, and that the meaning of ?zina? includes
not only Adultery, but also Fornication.  [The English word
fornication meaning an unmarried person having sexual intercourse with
another person of the opposite sex.]

I want someone to look at the Arabic and a) confirm whether the word
used is zina.  b) give an opinion about whether the writer intended to
forbid Fornication or not.  I don?t mind whether the answer is
clear-cut yes or no, or if the answer is that it is unclear one way or
the other.  Please do include your reasoning.

Ideally, the person answering this question would be a native Arabic
speaker and have lived in an Arabic speaking country at some time.

All comments most gratefully appreciated.

Thank you so much,
Ponderer

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Clarification of Question by ponderer-ga on 14 Nov 2004 01:34 PST

I notice someone has locked my question already, which is great. 
Please do feel free to ask if you need me to clarify anything, as I
will check regularly.

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Clarification of Question by ponderer-ga on 14 Nov 2004 04:14 PST

When I referred to "a knowledgeable interpreter" I was referring to
the official notes published in the translated version of this
document (called the Kitab-I-Aqdas).  Note however that these notes
were *not* written by the original author of the text.

------- Note in the English translation ---------
The Arabic word "zina", here translated as "adultery", signifies both
fornication and adultery. It applies not only to sexual relations
between a married person and someone who is not his or her spouse, but
also to extramarital sexual intercourse in general. One form of "zina"
is rape. The only penalty prescribed by Baha'u'llah is for those who
commit fornication (see note 77); penalties for other kinds of sexual
offence are left to the Universal House of Justice to determine.
-------------------------------------------------
Source: www.bahai-library.com/provisionals/aqdas/aqdas053.notes.html

(Yes I do note above it refers to a "penalty prescribed for
Fornication".  If the answerer is by chance able to locate the Arabic
text of this note by the original author himself (Baha'u'llah) and
discuss this in the context of answering my question then I promise an
extra tip of at least $15.  But if not that is OK too.)

I'm looking for an second opinion based on what the original author
wrote, not what other people think he menas.  I can read the English
notes, but I can't read the Arabic!  If this requires more work, and
you can set out for me what you are offering to do, perhaps I can
provide a follow-up question or a tip.

Please don't spend hours trawling the web though... as I am not
looking for a summary of what other people have said.  I'm looking for
an intelligent reasoned second opinion by someone who can read the
Arabic.  A non-religious person might be the most impartial, though I
myself believe in God and that religion has a place in this world we
share.  I truly am open minded.

Thank you *very* much for researching my question.

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Request for Question Clarification by rainbow-ga on 14 Nov 2004 13:12 PST

Hi ponderer,

My apologies for having locked your question for most of the day. This
was done not only to ensure that I would have the opportunity to
answer it, but also to ask other people's opinion of your question. I
speak Arabic and currently live in the Middle East.

After reading your clarification, I am not quite certain if the answer
I give you is what you are seeking. I'm therefore posting this as a
clarification for your perusal and assurance that it is what you
require.

The word "zina" is definitely used in the Arabic text you gave. As you
have already established "zina" means adultery and/or fornication. I
believe, as do other members of my family  who have also read the
text, that the writer intended to mean both adultery and fornication.
I say this because of the religious context the text was written in,
specifically in the Bahai religion. The text itself is part of rules
found in a Bahai book known as The Sacred Book. All forms of
illegitimate sex are forbidden and this includes not only adultery but
fornication as well.

If this satisfies you as a sufficient answer please let me know so I
can post if officially.

Best regards,
Rainbow

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Clarification of Question by ponderer-ga on 14 Nov 2004 16:54 PST

rainbow-ga, I notice you much experience and positive feedback on GA. 
Thank you for considering my question.

Yes, I think you can answer my question, but I do want you to expand
on what you wrote quite a bit.

First, I want you to expand on what this Arabic word "zina" means. 
You say I have already established that "zina" includes adultery or
fornication, but you misunderstand me slightly there.  This is part of
why I posted the question.  Could you discuss in as much detail as
possible the Arabic word "zina" and its meaning.  Why does it include
fornication?  If it were a "moral" concept I could understand this,
yet I have read on some websites that "zina" allows sex within a
marriage OR *concubinage*.  For example,
http://atheism.about.com/library/glossary/islam/bldef_zina.htm says
this.  As a westerner the idea of multiple wives doesn't seem very
morally right either.  Neither does allowing a woman to be sold to a
man by her parents, or transferred to another man as "property" by her
husband's will when she dies.  Some other people even say "zina" can
include kissing, holding hands, or thinking a sexual thought about
someone.  Being a cultural concept, I guess it just doesn't translate
to English simply.  Please can you expand on what this word "zina"
means.

Second, could you also discuss your statement "All forms of
illegitimate sex are forbidden and this includes not only adultery but
fornication as well."  It sounds like you are saying this based on
having read other parts of the "The Sacred Text" written by the
original Author?  Or is this just based on reading the specific
paragraph in my original quote.  I don't expect you to have found
other things discussed in "The Sacred Book" on the topic, but if you
did I would be most grateful if you did mention them.

Also what did you mean when you use the phrase "illegitimate sex"?  I
guess this relates back to the original discussion of the word "zina".

The purpose of my previous clarification was simply to state that I
wanted analysis to be based on what the original Author wrote himself.
 I didn't want analysis based on what somebody OTHER than the author
himself said.  Eg. "Mr Smith wrote a paper in 1986 and said that he
thought that Baha'u'llah meant XYZ."

Thank you!
Ponderer

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Clarification of Question by ponderer-ga on 14 Nov 2004 20:33 PST

I notice you have unlocked my question.  I guess that means you have
decided you don't feel you can answer it.  Perhaps this is my fault
for not making myself clear enough?  If so, apologies.  Regardless,
thank you for taking the time to look at it.

---

Request for Question Clarification by rainbow-ga on 15 Nov 2004 01:46 PST

Hello ponderer,

Thank you for your compliments on my work at GA. 

The reason I no longer had your question locked is simply because
after four hours the lock automatically expires. During this time we
are able to relock it for another four-hour period if we choose.
However, it was the middle of the night here when the lock expired.

Frankly, I do not feel that I will be able to expand much more on the
definition of the word  "zina". I say this not only because the term
can be interpreted in so many ways, but also because I set for myself
a principle of not involving myself too deeply with political or
religious questions while working as a researcher.

I took on your question because your original question seemed to
require basic confirmation, i.e.  "a) confirm whether the word used is
zina.  b) give an  opinion about whether the writer intended to forbid
Fornication or not?."

In my clarification I attempted to answer both questions as I
interpreted your requirement.

Personally, I am not familiar with the writer nor the book, since I am
not acquainted with religious literature. However, in my opinion,
since the term "zina" means both adultery *and* fornication, there is
no reason why the writer would have intended it to mean *only*
adultery in such a context.

I hope that helps a little.

Best of luck,
Rainbow

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Clarification of Question by ponderer-ga on 16 Nov 2004 17:31 PST

Rainbow, I have decided I am happy with your answer to my question as
it stands in your original clarification request.

Please post it as an answer ? nothing further is required.

--- OPTIONAL for a $5 tip ---
On the following page http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/KA/ka-15.html
appears a Question and an Answer:

23. QUESTION: Concerning the punishment of the adulterer and adulteress.
ANSWER: Nine mithqáls are payable for the first offence, eighteen for
the second, thirty-six for the third, and so on, each succeeding fine
being double the preceding. The weight of one mithqál 115 is
equivalent to nineteen nákhuds in accordance with the specification of
the Bayán.

Would it be possible for you to
a) find the URL for this Question in the Arabic version of the same site
b) tell me what the original Arabic words were that were translated
here to ?Adulterer? / ?Adulteress??  (No opinion on meaning is
required, just tell me what the ?transliteration? is in English
characters, like "zina".)

Thanks
Ponderer
PS: I think your decision not to get too involved in religious or
political matters is very wise.

Hi ponderer,

Thank you for accepting my clarification as an answer to your
question. I will re-post it here for your convenience.

The word "zina" is definitely used in the Arabic text you gave. As you
have already established "zina" means adultery and/or fornication. I
believe, as do other members of my family  who have also read the
text, that the writer intended to mean both adultery and fornication.
I say this because of the religious context the text was written in,
specifically in the Bahai religion. The text itself is part of rules
found in a Bahai book known as The Sacred Book. All forms of
illegitimate sex are forbidden and this includes not only adultery but
fornication as well.


In regard to Questions and Answers, which is a Supplementary to the
KITÁB-I-AQDAS, I have not been able to locate the arabic edition,
which is called Risalih-'i Su'al va Javab.
See #63 here:
http://bahai-library.com/?file=rabbani_inba_index.html

"Though it's now published as part of the Aqdas, _Questions and
Answers_ was originally a separate text. Taherzadeh explains that
"after its revelation Bahá'u'lláh permitted Zaynu'l- Muqarribin, one
of His devoted companions, who was formerly a mujtahid (Doctor of
Islamic law) and highly experienced in the application of Islamic law,
to ask any questions he might have regarding the application of the
laws of Bahá'u'lláh. The answers given by Him are contained in a book
known as Questions and Answers which is to be regarded as an appendix
to the Kitáb-i- Aqdas." (ibid. 278-79)"

http://bahai-library.com/resources/tablets-notes/kitab-aqdas/outline.html


Regarding the question concerning the punishment of the adulterer and adulteress:

"Bahá'u'lláh forbids adultery in the Kitáb-i-Aqdas, His Book of Laws: 
"Ye have been forbidden to commit murder or adultery, or to engage in
backbiting or calumny; shun ye, then, what hath been prohibited in the
holy Books and Tablets." (The Kitáb-i-Aqdas, Par. 19, p. 26)

He then sets the penalty for it: 
God hath imposed a fine on every adulterer and adulteress, to be paid
to the House of Justice: nine mithqals of gold, to be doubled if they
should repeat the offence. Such is the penalty which He Who is the
Lord of Names hath assigned them in this world; and in the world to
come He hath ordained for them a humiliating torment. Should anyone be
afflicted by a sin, it behoveth him to repent thereof and return unto
his Lord. He, verily, granteth forgiveness unto whomsoever He willeth,
and none may question that which it pleaseth Him to ordain. He is, in
truth, the Ever-Forgiving, the Almighty, the All-Praised.
Bahá'u'lláh, The Kitáb-i-Aqdas, Par. 49, p. 37"

http://bahai-library.com/essays/ethics.survey/
Also: http://www.bahai-library.com/provisionals/aqdas/aqdas049-051.html

You can find the above text (paragraph 49) in arabic on this page:
http://reference.bahai.org/ar/t/b/KA/ka-59.html#pg31

Therefore in answer to your question, the terms used for adulterer and
adulteress are respectively, zanen and zania.


I hope the information provided is helpful.

Best regards,
Rainbow

That's great.  Thanks.

Hi ponderer,

Thank you for the rating and tip.

Best wishes,
Rainbow