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Q: rape and evolution ( No Answer,   8 Comments )
Question  
Subject: rape and evolution
Category: Science
Asked by: nietzcheisdead-ga
List Price: $5.00
Posted: 04 Jan 2006 13:56 PST
Expires: 03 Feb 2006 13:56 PST
Question ID: 429139
What are the arguments for and against a strong link between a man's
desire to rape a woman and evolution/natural selection?
Would men who were less prone to rape have been selected against?
Personally, I enjoy acting out forcible sex on my wife.  I think I
have had a "normal" upbringing. My wife enjoys being completely
dominated, and have met a few women who also enjoy being dominated.
Is this due more to nature or is this nurture?
Answer  
There is no answer at this time.

Comments  
Subject: Re: rape and evolution
From: qed100-ga on 04 Jan 2006 16:27 PST
 
This is an interesting question which, in my opinion, has no clear,
definitive answer. Not at this time. The argument is that any
genetically based behavior which tends to promote reproduction will be
passed to the next generation hereditarilly, and the next generation
will then have a propensity for this behavior as well. It is plausible
-that is to say, it cannot be excluded- that rape behavior can be
genetically motivated, since it obviously can lead to reproduction.

   But plausible is not the same as demonstrated. I don't know what
controlled research has been done in this regard. But a good way to
gauge it might be to gather statistics connecting rape with
impregnation. If there is a very low rate of impregnation per incident
of rape, it might be strong evidence that rape isn't an effective
reproductive strategy. It could then be confidently proposed that rape
is more a form of social behavior. (dominance, control) Of course,
this too is arguably connectable with selection, since social behavior
tends to be broadly related to reproduction within whole populations
anyway.
Subject: Re: rape and evolution
From: vulaw-ga on 04 Jan 2006 20:50 PST
 
A professor, Owen Jones, has done some academic work you may find
interesting.  His work may also reference/review further reading which
is, again, more academic and may or may not apply to S&M play.

His bio page with links to all articles (several, of course, having
nothing to do with your question):

http://www.law.vanderbilt.edu/faculty/jones.html

And an article contrasting two books on the evolutionary aspects of
rape.  It's for a law journal, and focuses on those ramifications, but
you may find it a helpful overview or a comprehensive list of
references for further consultation.

http://www.law.vanderbilt.edu/faculty/pubs/jones-realitiesofrape.pdf
Subject: Re: rape and evolution
From: needsomeinfo-ga on 06 Jan 2006 12:24 PST
 
I just want to point out that there is a fundamental difference
between enjoying ACTING out or FANTISIZING about forcible sex or
enjoying being dominated and actually forcing unwanted sex or being
raped.
Subject: Re: rape and evolution
From: scubajim-ga on 06 Jan 2006 14:30 PST
 
I agree with needsomeinfo.  I am sure your wife would not actually want to be raped.
Subject: Re: rape and evolution
From: nietzcheisdead-ga on 06 Jan 2006 15:10 PST
 
Yes, I agree there is a difference between fantasy and reality.

But if I ejaculate after 20 seconds from mock-rape,
but I ejaculate after 530 seconds from traditional sex,
I have a hunch that my subconcious actually enjoys rape,
even though I would never act it out.

I wouldn't rape in reality because I would feel guilty and
there would be undesirable consequences.  But if my parents/society
didn't teach me right from wrong, and/or I was the type of person
to engage in self-destructive behaviour, then maybe my actions
might have changed, but my subconcious desire would remain.

I'm just wondering if this subconcious desire is the result of
pornography, society's view of women, etc.
or if it's more innate...
Subject: Re: rape and evolution
From: needsomeinfo-ga on 06 Jan 2006 23:27 PST
 
Other than things like hair color and eye color, there really isn't
anything about human behavior that is exclusively nature or nurture. 
So the answer is both.  I don't know of any research finding a
biological basis that drives someone to rape like there is for someone
to be bipolar or schizophrenic, but there is research about other
biological/nature basis for anti-social behaviors in general.  Poor
impulse control, lower nervous system arousal, etc.  For example,
there is a theory that there is a nature component for low nervious
system arousal.  These people just function at a lower arousal (and I
don't mean sexual) level than the average population.  So in order to
get their adrenaline kick, some people do things like bungee jumping
and others rob banks.  The nature is the low nervous system arousal,
the nurture helps determine if you jump off a cliff or rob a bank.

But I still disagree about you're blurring the line between fantasy
and behavior.  There are a lot of people out there who fantasize and
experiment with domination and rape-fantasies and 99% of them aren't
rapists.  And the people who are rapists rarely act out the same types
of fantasies in a consensual manner.  The desire that you are
describing is very different than that of what rapists describe.
Subject: Re: rape and evolution
From: nietzcheisdead-ga on 07 Jan 2006 09:03 PST
 
needsomeinfo,

I don't think there's research on this, but just theories and
arguments that go both ways.

I agree most people who fantasize about rape/domination do not rape. 
I am one.  But I have heard numbers ranging from 8-30% of women get
raped in their lifetime, and have met far too many women have gone
through this experience.  So if there are not a lot of men raping,
there are a few men who rape a lot.

Why would rapists not fantasize about rape?  If they're in jail after
a conviction, why wouldn't they fantasize about rape?  I don't know
the research on rapists, but have a hunch that some may even act out
this fantasy if they had a partner they felt very comfortable with.  I
don't know what a rapist would describe, but I can tell you what I
like from a mock-rape experience:  power, control, feeling like I am
the king of the world, etc...
Subject: Re: rape and evolution
From: saucysaladshooter-ga on 19 Jan 2006 12:03 PST
 
Actually that comment is similar to the popular misconception that
many rapists would not rape if they had a girlfriend etc. But a lot of
the time rape isn't about sex in and of itself. Sex is just the weapon
used to obtain that power high. It's like when people eat at a crappy
restaurant when they're in a hurry. That full feeling was obtained by
eating, yet if that same person wanted to relax and enjoy the meal,
they'd choose a different restaurant. A rapist rapes to obtain power,
but when it comes to experiencing an enjoyable sexual encounter, their
ideal hookup may not include force at all. Now, you personally may
feel a connection between power and sexual pleasure which makes the
simulated rape enjoyable, but typical rapists see the sex as a tool to
get it, not the central focus of the act. The very fact that you don't
really rape people shows that you're acheiving what you desire with
what you have. Actual rapists are looking for something a little
different. Of course that may not be true of all violent cases.
(Actually I think many of the rapes that occur are in a setting where
the victim is under the infleuence of some sort of drug, not the
violent power struggle in some back alley, that usually comes to mind.
In thoses cases, where drugs and subtle coercion are used, sexual
pleasure may be the central focus for the attacker. I'm no
expert.)I've also heard that many times in those dramatic situations
the attacker is unable to perform for an extended period of time and
sometimes fails to ejaculate at all. It may not answer your question,
but it's something to think about.

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