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Subject:
rape and evolution
Category: Science Asked by: nietzcheisdead-ga List Price: $5.00 |
Posted:
04 Jan 2006 13:56 PST
Expires: 03 Feb 2006 13:56 PST Question ID: 429139 |
What are the arguments for and against a strong link between a man's desire to rape a woman and evolution/natural selection? Would men who were less prone to rape have been selected against? Personally, I enjoy acting out forcible sex on my wife. I think I have had a "normal" upbringing. My wife enjoys being completely dominated, and have met a few women who also enjoy being dominated. Is this due more to nature or is this nurture? |
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There is no answer at this time. |
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Subject:
Re: rape and evolution
From: qed100-ga on 04 Jan 2006 16:27 PST |
This is an interesting question which, in my opinion, has no clear, definitive answer. Not at this time. The argument is that any genetically based behavior which tends to promote reproduction will be passed to the next generation hereditarilly, and the next generation will then have a propensity for this behavior as well. It is plausible -that is to say, it cannot be excluded- that rape behavior can be genetically motivated, since it obviously can lead to reproduction. But plausible is not the same as demonstrated. I don't know what controlled research has been done in this regard. But a good way to gauge it might be to gather statistics connecting rape with impregnation. If there is a very low rate of impregnation per incident of rape, it might be strong evidence that rape isn't an effective reproductive strategy. It could then be confidently proposed that rape is more a form of social behavior. (dominance, control) Of course, this too is arguably connectable with selection, since social behavior tends to be broadly related to reproduction within whole populations anyway. |
Subject:
Re: rape and evolution
From: vulaw-ga on 04 Jan 2006 20:50 PST |
A professor, Owen Jones, has done some academic work you may find interesting. His work may also reference/review further reading which is, again, more academic and may or may not apply to S&M play. His bio page with links to all articles (several, of course, having nothing to do with your question): http://www.law.vanderbilt.edu/faculty/jones.html And an article contrasting two books on the evolutionary aspects of rape. It's for a law journal, and focuses on those ramifications, but you may find it a helpful overview or a comprehensive list of references for further consultation. http://www.law.vanderbilt.edu/faculty/pubs/jones-realitiesofrape.pdf |
Subject:
Re: rape and evolution
From: needsomeinfo-ga on 06 Jan 2006 12:24 PST |
I just want to point out that there is a fundamental difference between enjoying ACTING out or FANTISIZING about forcible sex or enjoying being dominated and actually forcing unwanted sex or being raped. |
Subject:
Re: rape and evolution
From: scubajim-ga on 06 Jan 2006 14:30 PST |
I agree with needsomeinfo. I am sure your wife would not actually want to be raped. |
Subject:
Re: rape and evolution
From: nietzcheisdead-ga on 06 Jan 2006 15:10 PST |
Yes, I agree there is a difference between fantasy and reality. But if I ejaculate after 20 seconds from mock-rape, but I ejaculate after 530 seconds from traditional sex, I have a hunch that my subconcious actually enjoys rape, even though I would never act it out. I wouldn't rape in reality because I would feel guilty and there would be undesirable consequences. But if my parents/society didn't teach me right from wrong, and/or I was the type of person to engage in self-destructive behaviour, then maybe my actions might have changed, but my subconcious desire would remain. I'm just wondering if this subconcious desire is the result of pornography, society's view of women, etc. or if it's more innate... |
Subject:
Re: rape and evolution
From: needsomeinfo-ga on 06 Jan 2006 23:27 PST |
Other than things like hair color and eye color, there really isn't anything about human behavior that is exclusively nature or nurture. So the answer is both. I don't know of any research finding a biological basis that drives someone to rape like there is for someone to be bipolar or schizophrenic, but there is research about other biological/nature basis for anti-social behaviors in general. Poor impulse control, lower nervous system arousal, etc. For example, there is a theory that there is a nature component for low nervious system arousal. These people just function at a lower arousal (and I don't mean sexual) level than the average population. So in order to get their adrenaline kick, some people do things like bungee jumping and others rob banks. The nature is the low nervous system arousal, the nurture helps determine if you jump off a cliff or rob a bank. But I still disagree about you're blurring the line between fantasy and behavior. There are a lot of people out there who fantasize and experiment with domination and rape-fantasies and 99% of them aren't rapists. And the people who are rapists rarely act out the same types of fantasies in a consensual manner. The desire that you are describing is very different than that of what rapists describe. |
Subject:
Re: rape and evolution
From: nietzcheisdead-ga on 07 Jan 2006 09:03 PST |
needsomeinfo, I don't think there's research on this, but just theories and arguments that go both ways. I agree most people who fantasize about rape/domination do not rape. I am one. But I have heard numbers ranging from 8-30% of women get raped in their lifetime, and have met far too many women have gone through this experience. So if there are not a lot of men raping, there are a few men who rape a lot. Why would rapists not fantasize about rape? If they're in jail after a conviction, why wouldn't they fantasize about rape? I don't know the research on rapists, but have a hunch that some may even act out this fantasy if they had a partner they felt very comfortable with. I don't know what a rapist would describe, but I can tell you what I like from a mock-rape experience: power, control, feeling like I am the king of the world, etc... |
Subject:
Re: rape and evolution
From: saucysaladshooter-ga on 19 Jan 2006 12:03 PST |
Actually that comment is similar to the popular misconception that many rapists would not rape if they had a girlfriend etc. But a lot of the time rape isn't about sex in and of itself. Sex is just the weapon used to obtain that power high. It's like when people eat at a crappy restaurant when they're in a hurry. That full feeling was obtained by eating, yet if that same person wanted to relax and enjoy the meal, they'd choose a different restaurant. A rapist rapes to obtain power, but when it comes to experiencing an enjoyable sexual encounter, their ideal hookup may not include force at all. Now, you personally may feel a connection between power and sexual pleasure which makes the simulated rape enjoyable, but typical rapists see the sex as a tool to get it, not the central focus of the act. The very fact that you don't really rape people shows that you're acheiving what you desire with what you have. Actual rapists are looking for something a little different. Of course that may not be true of all violent cases. (Actually I think many of the rapes that occur are in a setting where the victim is under the infleuence of some sort of drug, not the violent power struggle in some back alley, that usually comes to mind. In thoses cases, where drugs and subtle coercion are used, sexual pleasure may be the central focus for the attacker. I'm no expert.)I've also heard that many times in those dramatic situations the attacker is unable to perform for an extended period of time and sometimes fails to ejaculate at all. It may not answer your question, but it's something to think about. |
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