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Q: how to overcome being a failure? ( Answered,   9 Comments )
Question  
Subject: how to overcome being a failure?
Category: Reference, Education and News > Education
Asked by: failure-ga
List Price: $10.00
Posted: 15 Nov 2004 23:21 PST
Expires: 15 Dec 2004 23:21 PST
Question ID: 429597
I attend an Ivy League school on the east coast. When I tell people
where I go, the say stuff like "oooh you must be so smart"

I am smart, but I am also a failure. I got caught cheating and my
suspension will start next semester. The school officials say this
incident will be on my permanent record and I am lucky that I was only
suspended (not expelled).

Oddly enough, I never realized the vast opportunities that I had in
front of me until I (conceivabley) pissed them all away in one stupid
late night panicked moment. I feel like such a failure. I am a failure
at life. I've let everyone down.

My question is: Is there any hope of me ever getting into a graduate
program, say 5-10 years down the line? Or have I committed a truly
unforgivable sin in the academic world?

Perhaps someone who could answer this would be someone in the academic
world who knows what professors/admissions officers truly think about
cheaters like me.

I would imagine that the impression of someone like me would be "well,
kid, if you didn't want to end up being a failure in life, you never
should have cheated in the first place. You made your bed, now lie in
it and quit whining."

Any of you academic types have an opinion or experience with this?

Clarification of Question by failure-ga on 17 Nov 2004 17:47 PST
Are there no Google Answers Researchers who work/have worked in
academia and have experience with this type of situation?

The commenters have all been very positive but surely there are 2
sides to every story. .
Answer  
Subject: Re: how to overcome being a failure?
Answered By: vercingatorix-ga on 24 Nov 2004 07:41 PST
 
First off, let me say that while I didn't go to an Ivy League school,
I did attend one that is comparably strong in academics and weak in
athletics as most Ivy League schools. I wasted my share of
opportunities, as well, and I'm going to talk to you from experience.

I got poor grades in college because I didn't work very hard. I cut
40% of my classes and read about 20% of the material because I knew I
could maintain a B average without working harder. Today, I regret
that terribly. But at 18, you couldn't tell me anything, and whatever
decision I made was, by definition, the single best decision in the
history of rational thought. I cheated, lied, and did everything I
could to make my college years easier, rather than making them more
productive.

By some definitions, I would have been considered a failure. But I
never thought so, not even when I realized how stupid I had been, and
the breadth of the opportunity I squandered.

You're a failure if you give up. You're a failure if you let your past
mistakes beat you. You're not a failure if you learn from those
mistakes.

Thomas Edison is said to have told his discouraged researchers
something like the following after another failed attempt at the
electric light: "We haven't failed, we've just discovered the 120th
way it will not work."

Edison, a man who his own family labeled a failure, said late in life
that he had failed his way to success. Edison also said, "Show me a
thoroughly satisfied man, and I will show you a failure."

You're not a failure in my book. You made a mistake, and a costly one.

Join the club.

I won't go into details, but I've made plenty of costly mistakes. So
have many of the most successful people I know.

Regardless of what happened in the past, I must look to the present.
Now that I have a family to support, my decisions are more important
than they used to be. With medical bills yesterday, a mortgage today,
and college expenses tomorrow, I have less margin for error than I
once did. The same goes for you.

Why did I say all this? Because we are judged more on what happened
last year than what happened 10 years ago.

That is not to say that your cheating will not affect your grad-school
choices. It certainly will. If you hope to become a doctor or lawyer,
or otherwise work in a field for which you need the grad school
immediately to get a job, you have a hard road ahead of you. However,
even hard roads are passable to a man willing to labor.

If you seek an MBA or a degree in another field like science or
humanities, you may have an easier time of it if you wait for a bit.

Here is what I suggest you do in the near term:

* Start by finding an internship in your field. Start looking
immediately. That way, even if there is a hole on your transcript,
there will not be one on your resume. Take an unpaid internship if you
have to, but find a job that pertains to your field of study.
* Then, when you get back to school, make sure you get an A or B in
every class you take from now until graduation. If you have to study
every night and give up dating or intramural football or macrame or
whatever for the next two years, do it.
* Do more work than is necessary. Write the extra-credit papers, show
up at class every day to make sure you don't miss any pop quizzes,
provide 20 citations when the professor demands at least 10.
* Graduate with a degree you can use to get a job now, without going
to graduate school, and with a transcript you can be proud of.

After you graduate, you must accept a few facts before you can proceed:

* Elite institutions are likely to call your undergraduate school for
more information before they admit you.
* A certain percentage of admissions people will simply not admit you
because of the cheating, even if you graduate summa cum laude or get a
pardon from the governor.
* Accept the fact that your actions are likely to be familiar to grad
schools in your region, ones that specialize in your current major,
and ones with ties to your current professors.

Having accepted those facts, you can operate within them to advance yourself.

* Prepare for the questions you'll get during grad-school interviews.
You're likely to be asked about the cheating. Have your answers ready.
Cite your renewed commitment to school and stellar grades. Acknowledge
your foolishness and explain your newfound wisdom. Explain the
situation honestly and earnestly, without looking embarrassed or
dancing around the question. Better they cut you loose at the
beginning of the program than string you along for weeks, then decide
at the end of the line that you're too bad a risk.
* Certainly apply to the best schools, but also consider second-tier
schools or those 3,000 miles away. Better an MBA from the University
of Coastal Southeastern Idaho than a rejection letter from the Wharton
School. Remember, corporate board rooms are filled with people who
graduated from small or lightly regarded schools. Once you get into
the work world, your drive, competence, and creativity will be much
more important than your educational pedigree. A Yalie who can't do
the work will get paid less than a community-college graduate who
provides the company with a competitive advantage.
* If you work in a field for which you do not immediately need a
graduate degree, find a good job as soon as you can. That way, if you
don't get into a graduate program, you won't starve. A job in the
field will also provide you with the chance to acquire two additional
weapons in your grad-school application arsenal: Solid work experience
and additional education.
* If you get the right job, work experience counts for a lot with
grad-school admissions departments, particularly for practical
programs like MBAs rather than academic ones like doctorates in
history.
* Additional education is a must if you can't get into grad school
right away. If you show a commitment to furthering your education as a
nonmatriculating student, taking difficult courses at an accredited
university while holding down your job in the field, it may sway the
opinions of admissions officers in the future.

To summarize:

You are not a failure unless you let your mistakes drive you off the
path you wish to follow, or you allow yourself to become so complacent
with your current situation that you no longer seek to improve
yourself.

By working hard to establish a good college record, you may be able to
overcome the stigma of cheating. And unless your college transcript
mentions the cheating, which it may not, it is possible that some
admissions officers may not find out.
 
Most importantly, remember that the business world is shaped by those
with a combination of talent, creativity, and a capacity for work. If
you have those three, you can certainly get where you want to go, even
if you don't wow potential employers where you went to school.

V
Comments  
Subject: Re: how to overcome being a failure?
From: probonopublico-ga on 15 Nov 2004 23:54 PST
 
Put it behind you!

Many people carve out great success for themselves without the start
that you were given.

In fact, a start such as yours is often a disincentive.

Move on ... Think of all the things that you can do that don't require
a great academic background.

When Steve Wozniak dropped out to start Apple, it didn't seem to hurt
his career ...

Good luck!
Subject: Re: how to overcome being a failure?
From: frde-ga on 16 Nov 2004 04:28 PST
 
I agree with Probono - some of the most successful people have been cheats.

Also, academic qualifications are not necessarily the most useful
things when it comes to the real world.

You said:
<quote>pissed them all away in one stupid
late night panicked moment</quote>

Which sounds like you copied an essay, and got rumbled.
In 'academic terms' this is 'plagiarism' - and it is widespread.

In my day essay copying was rife, and even the tutors indulged in exam
results manipulation - which most would call 'cheating'.

Many sportsmen indulge in a bit of mischief - and we only know about
the ones that are caught.

On a practical note, keep your head down and look suitably contrite.
In reality start making plans for a future free of a pretty tedious
spell at 'Graduate school' - but do not let on that you are secretly
relieved - not even to your friends.

If possible, when you are released from academia, travel a bit, in
fairly safe areas (no point in being reckless), learn about your own
country and hopefully a few others. Try to work your way, rather than
being a tourist. You'll learn more that way.

If, after a few years, you can brag like Orson Welles, and still want
to go back to academia, it would not be hard.

BTW, get your GMAT before you leave, the way to 'cheat' at that is to
buy the practise work books.

The only time you are a failure is when you are dead.
Subject: Re: how to overcome being a failure?
From: timespacette-ga on 16 Nov 2004 07:39 PST
 
You've bought into the party line ... that a college degree is
imperative.  It's a crock of pure unadulterated sheepdip!

take a look at some of these books:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/103-3184376-9320603

some of the most interesting, 'successful' and accomplished people in
the world have done WAY worse than this ... give it a rest, and
yourself a break.

BTW .... not sure I agree with frde-ga about death and failure!  

ts
Subject: Re: how to overcome being a failure?
From: timespacette-ga on 16 Nov 2004 07:41 PST
 
just noticed your 'handle' ..... failure-ga

oh boy.   there's a good place to start, by disidentifying.

I'd say 'good luck' but it's not a matter of luck, just intention.

cheers!

ts
Subject: Re: how to overcome being a failure?
From: professorman-ga on 16 Nov 2004 14:01 PST
 
You can always go to Rollins College MBA program...they will accept
ANYONE as long as you have enough money.
Subject: Re: how to overcome being a failure?
From: mast-ga on 23 Nov 2004 18:41 PST
 
It depends what you want to do with your academic record. If you want
more people to 'ooh' and 'ah' over it, then perhaps you need to
rethink your priorities. I suspect, however, that your chief priority
in this matter is to further your education, and later, your career.
If this is the case, then I wouldn't worry about it. It may appear on
your record, but other things will be there too.

When it comes to employers - and I've managed several businesses in my
life thus far - most will look for two things in prospective
employees: that they can get along with them and that they can get the
job done. If you can show those two things then you will have no more
difficulty in your working life than a person who has never been
caught cheating.
Subject: Re: how to overcome being a failure?
From: fred211-ga on 28 Nov 2004 22:35 PST
 
Life's complicated and funny! I once had a very promising mathemtics
and philosophy student who almost got expelled from college in his
last year for plagiarism I uncovered: luckily (for him) he was so lazy
that he got the main point of what he was plagiarizing confused, so we
could treat as a bad failure, not a case of pure cheating.This 
brought his whole grade down so much that he was rejected (with a
scholarship) to do further mathemtical research at a very good
university.  He took his mathemtical skills and trained as an
accountant, I learned this because sveral years later I was rather
surprized to see him back at the University. I asked him what he'd
been dong..he said he trained as an accountant as he couldn't do the
advanced theoritical work he wanted...and he was now working with a
firm at the University...,auditing our books! Perhaps such a
profession suited him well.
Subject: Re: how to overcome being a failure?
From: superpoen-ga on 20 Mar 2005 23:10 PST
 
Here's the deal.

High School, ranked bottle 10%, aspiration in life, be a senior "bus
boy" in the kitchen.
Undergrade, Boston U, top 5%, sort of caught in a compromise situation
once for helping my student once, first and last.  Punishment/rewards,
tutor students in Cal I,II, III.  Graduated with Honors
Masters, top 10 MBA school, 4.0.

Strategy:  Choose what ever path that maximizes your potential.... and
never never never give up.  Rather then learn from schools... go out
learn from the world, make a positive difference, come back to teach,
and to repay for your past sin(s).

Sincerely,

Superpeon, not Superpoen
Subject: Re: how to overcome being a failure?
From: earthlove123-ga on 25 Mar 2005 09:00 PST
 
great answer

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