I have recently met a girl I like at school. Problem is, I don't know
how to ask her out and wheather or not I can ask her our or get her
phone number at the current stage.

Here's some background info I would like to share with you.
I am an Asian and she is Caucasian. That is, I don't know what the
western convention is and all the thoughts, both my own and my
friends', are based on asian culture.

We have been having short talks over the last couple of weeks. Most of
the times we talk about how we are doing in our courses. Occasionally
I asked her what does she do on weekends or what type of movie she
likes. From my point of view, I am the one who always start the
conversation, which to me is like that she isn't quite interested in
me.

She almost always stays with her friends from highschool, so it is
quite difficult for me to get in that little circle. As far as I can
tell, I don't see a chance to get into that circle. I could go to her
when she goes to study or work on her assignments but I am not sure if
that would feel like an invasion of her privacy because it would
probably feel like that I am folloing her wherever she goes.

I am not sure, at this stage, if asking her our is appropriate. Or,
perhaps, I should get her phone number or MSN first before ask her
out? My friends said that she would probably feel quite weird if I ask
her out or try to get her phone/MSN because we do not know each other
that well yet.

What do you suggest me to do? What is the western convention? Is
asking her out or getting her phone/MSN at the current stage
appropriate? Or should I get to know her, as well as get her to know
me, a little more before asking for her phone number?

Thanks!

Western gals are VERY GOOD at letting guys know of their interest.

If you are not getting the right vibes then the girl probably only
sees you as a friend.

Don't worry, she'll send you some clear signals once you catch her interest.

Have you thought of standing under her window and serenading her?

Please do not serenade her. That won't help. Nothing public at this
point. You can do that later, but only if you are John Cusak. :)

If you are taking short walks with her and asking her what she likes
to do, what movies she likes, that's a good start. If she seems
receptive to the walks and does not try to find ways to avoid talking
to you, then she might be open to getting to know you better.

I think you should continue your walks and keep getting to know her.
When you are ready, when you feel more comfortable with her, there
should be no problem asking her for her number. Western society values
honesty above all else, so once you get to know her better, let her
know that you are not sure about US dating rules and then ask her to a
movie or something that is in line with her interests.

Good luck!!

I would love it if a man stood under my window and serenaded me :)

Steph53

Thanks for the input. 

I was the one who always start a conversation. She never seemed to try
to get out of a conversation but she, so far, never took the
initiative to talk to me. Does that mean she's sending a signal saying
that she's not too interested in me?

Also, is it ok to go where she goes between classes. Would that make
her feel like I am spying on her?

Hi Steph

Please keep your eyes and ears open tonight ...

And you just might hear a soaring baritone voice accompanied by a small guitar.

When you do, take a look out of your bedroom window ...

And you might see a handsome Harlequin-type figure standing outside ...

Up to his eyeballs in snow ...

You seem to have forgotten what the weather's like in Toronto at this
time of year ...

Please be more careful.

The Wandering Minstrel.

BTW, One more thing.
Since I wouldn't say we know each other well right now. Does that mean
it would be inappropriate to ask for her MSN? If I could, I would not
be limited to talk with her just at school. However, my friends told
me that she would probably feel weird if I asked her because I am just
a classmate to her. They suggest me to wait a bit longer.

What do you suggest?

ultimateapocalypse.....

Speaking strictly as a female here, if this girl does not intitiate
any conversations with you, then I would surmize that there is no
romantic interest on her part.

If I liked a guy, I would try to find any opportunity to talk with him.

For me, asking for someone's MSN addy is the same as asking for their phone number.

Probonopublico....

Check the Weather Network - no need for boots.............. :)

Steph53

Hi Steph

I assume that this is the same as you asking me for my MSN addy or
asking me for my phone number ....

Ye Gods!

For me 20 feet of snow is NO PROBLEM.

Now, where did I put my small guitar?

Please wait ... I'm on my way ......

Steph:

I agree with you on that. But that does not mean there is no chance,
does it? I mean the chances are small but not zero though. :P

I understand that asking for a MSN is same a asking for phone number.
What I am not sure about is that ask for these at the current stage is
appropriate or not. I personally think asking for MSN or phone at this
stage is inappropriate. However, I am not sure if it is different in
western culture. Maybe it would not be considered as inappropriate to
ask the MSN or phone of somebody I just met not too long ago in
western culture.

Any thoughts?

Hi again....

I'm not saying that there is no chance or for you to give up on this girl.

Keep speaking to her and perhaps talk about any possible similar interests, etc.
I also agree that asking her for her phone # or MSN at this time is
definately inapproriate. Show her you are interested by making
frequent eye contact, smile at her genuinely and always appear happy
to see her.

Good luck!!!

Probonopublico,

I'll leave my window open a tad tonight in anticipation ;)

Steph53

Hi, it's me again :P

One more thing I forgot to ask. If asking for her phone # or MSN is
inappropriate at this stage, then would asking her out also be
considered as inappropriate? I would assume asking for MSN or phone #
should happen before asking her out but not quite sure if this is
generally the case. Maybe asking somebody out provides a better chance
to get to know each other and exchange phone # follows that. Which one
should happen first?

Listen dude, if it is met to be --- then you can NOT screw it up.  So
given that, just ask her to lunch and get the pain over with.  Then
ask her to a chick flick (movie) may I recommend "Bridget Jones: The
edge of reason".  You pay. You always pay. And you will always pay and
pay and pay... but I digress..

Then let nature take it's course.  If you don't feel the "vibe" then
it is not met to be - so move on, before you waste too much money!

If she wants to be "friends" then she pays for herself and you pay for
yourself.  Don't let her milk you until something better comes along.

just4fun2...

I'm not sure of your age or anything, but I'm currently dating a
wonderful man and we share the costs of dates. One night he pays,
another I pay. If we take trips, we usually split the costs evenly.
Don't  assume that all women are just along for the *ride* or your
money.

ultimateapocalypse...

Try asking her if she would like to join you for a cup of coffee at
the school cafeteria or whatever you have on campus. This way it
doesn't look like a "date" and won't scare her off. From that point,
you'll have a better idea of how receptive she is to your advances.

Steph53

oh dear, oh me, oh my . ..  . .

this makes me SO glad I am far, far away from college days . . .

here's my advice (since you asked) :
find out first if your values even come close to matching; talking
about movies and each other's responses to certain movies is a good
way to pursue that. (take her out to lunch; what could be
inappropriate about that?  Be honest and upfront: tell her you really
like her and would like to know her better . . . and I don't mean in
the Biblical sense . . .)
then find out if your life's aspirations will compliment each other.
The basic question: does she want to have kids?  If and when? What
about you? Would it matter to her if they were asian-looking kids? 
Would you care if your kids were half caucasian?
If she doesn't want kids, what does she want to do with herself? If
you express a genuine interest in finding this out, she will greatly
appreciate it.  If she doesn't have the foggiest idea, then maybe you
want someone who knows herself a little better.

my best friend in high school was Chinese, with both parents fresh
from China.  She went through many of the misgivings and doubts you
describe.  I've also known a number of Asians, both male and female,
who jumped the culture/race gap very happily and are now in good long
term relationships/marriages.  Beleive me, it's easier between Asians
and caucasians than it is between Blacks and caucasians, in general,
in my humble and experienced opinion. You may get lucky and find out
she harbors a secret fear/intrigue of Asian men; at this point the
fear may be trumping the intrigue but all that could change.  Most of
all, find out if she has genuine curiosity about the world and people
in it who are different from her. If you don't get past that hurdle,
she won't be much fun even if you succeed in the early stages.

good luck!

ts

probono,

would you hop even further west and land in the Great Pacific NorthWet?  

the snow, if any, is only a few inches deep!

bring your galoshes . . .

:-D

ts

timespacette

Your comments are very helpful except that I would not talk about kids
that sort of things. Hey, I am still in college, it is way to early to
consider those kind of things. :P The rest are valueable info. Only
problem now is if I can get a chance to buy her a cup of coffee. She
almost always stay with her friends from high school. Pretty hard for
me to get in, I would say. Of course, I think my personality also
plays a role here.

dear ultimateapocalypse,
you're right.  don't mention the kids just yet. but I wouldn't
discourage you from thinking about it for yourself; most people know
intuitively at a very young age whether they will want kids or
not...and it's a biggie when you get older; it will save you much pain
and sorrow if you get clear now.
Ask her out to lunch, not coffee. You pay (not necessarily for the
rest of your life, mind you....). Just find a place that's quiet with
minimal distractions (like her friends coming over) and charmingly let
her know that you enjoy being around her.  Planning is everything.
Take her off campus and away from her usual territory.  What's the
worst that could happen?  You could be horribly rejected. Be prepared
for rejection. If you take it graciously she might notice you're not
run-of-the-mill and have some semblance of self-worth, then she might
come around later.
cheers!  and let us know how it goes!

ts

Hi Ultimateapocalypse,

Just couldn't resist the temptation to chime in. I'm a 44 years old
Argentine man, and met a lot of young people from different cultures
when I traveled in Europe in my 20's.

My twenty cents: Don?t be so concerned about the cultural gap and of
what?s appropriate or not. Everyone assumes that someone may like
them. Just play the game softly and perceptively, trying to feel how
things go on.

The risk of rejection is part of the game, so don't be worried about
it, happens to anyone, no one likes it, but it doesn't hurt if you
don?t let it so. Thinking like this is liberating: if the worst
possible consequence ?rejection- is no big deal, you can behave much
more relaxed. Also do not let the feeling of "liking" someone become
too strong: you like this girl, that's all, she doesn't have to be the
"love of your life", what means that if she ever shows no interest in
you, just look for another girl you may like, and so on until one of
them will match your feelings.

So speaking in general, regardless the cultural gap, never hide away
from a girl that you like her. Just try not to be maladroit when
showing it, and try to catch the timing: do not attempt to give her a
loving kiss when it?s still the time to talk, but don?t talk when it?s
the time to kiss her.

But let her see that you like her, while you talk of movies, or
algebra, or while having lunch together. Think of it: although you
don?t like someone, it feels nice that this someone likes you (if not
getting unbearable). Being liked is a flattering experience that, when
elegantly managed by the one who likes, may awaken the reciprocal
feeling. Express it with your eyes, gestures. And have always in mind
all the things you believe a girl may like of you, your strengths but
also certain weaknesses can be attractive, tender. (Just try not to
show your ugliest parts until a deeper feeling can make them tolerable
?this is not dishonesty, just sensitivity, all humans need to do so,
and we all assume that the other one will.)

She may not be interested in you yet, but you can make it happen, or
not. But don?t fake a friend-like approach. If you honestly let her
perceive the kind of interest you have, she can encourage or
discourage it with her own attitudes, and you?ll see whether to step
further or not. Hope this helps. Best luck.

Guillermo

Phew!!!

What a night!

And now I'm off to the Pacific North Wet ...

This Balloonycraft of mine is sure coming in handy.

If you've got the Time, be sure to watch this Space.

By the light of the aurora borealis, a strange little craft eerily
approaches a small island. Lo, it is an aluminum lawn chair carried
aloft by a rather large passel of weather balloons! The pilot appears
wearing a pair of google goggles, an aviators scarf and the tunic of a
gladiator...(?)  Having crossed the frigid plains of Ottawa whilst
strumming his slightly out-of-tune guitar (it's the humidity, you
see..) a sonorous voice can be heard warbling in the starlit night  .
. .
      

               ************(this section removed by Google Answers
moderators)************
                                    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *

                                      * * * * * *(these are called
'twinklies') * * * * * * *

Alas, the craft departs, buffetted by a warm eddy off El Nino, the
pilot bound and determined to scour all of North America to find our
smitten friend <ultimateapocalypse-ga> only to sprinkle the faerie
dust Courage over his table at the Student Union cafeteria . . . in
this parallel cyber universe nothing is impossible . . .

*

Steph53, Steph53 -- The reason the guy pays is because -- here it comes --

It gives him some control. 

If the woman pays -- well -- there goes the little bit of control a
guy has.  Now this might raise the hair on the back of your neck, so I
suggest you consider the control a woman has over a man. An example
would be this posting.

As to our relationship deprived friend:

There are no secrets - shoot from the hip and walk over to her and ASK
HER OUT, in front of her friends. If she is not interested you will
know and will be given the great opportunity to move on.  And it will
be a great opportunity  - why you ask - because you will be free of
this emotional downer, this worry:  if she likes me or will she love
me or what if she hates me or worse yet --- what if she JUST DOESN'T
CARE.

Trust your gut.  But, she may like you - but does NOT feel anything
coming from you.  So she is not letting any of her feelings out.

It is kind of fun dreaming about being in love with a pretty girl - I
have spent many a day dreaming about a cheerleader I did NOT know in
high school. Trying to figure out the prefect plan, the prefect way to
get to know her.  Well, it turns out I never got to know her.  I never
asked her out to lunch, I never asked her to go to the movies.  And it
wasn't because I did not have opportunities:  I did.  With all that
figuring goin' on in my head. I ended up doing work for her dad, I
ended up delivering her newspaper, I ended up having my bike locked to
her's, I ended up giving friends of her's rides home in my car(I had a
really cool car), Etc...  But I never had the guts to ask a simple
question, "Would you like to go out?"

I learned my lession - In my 20s with No college, I ended up working
at a cement plant as a janitor.  After getting laid off - working at
7-11 - graveyard shift, I met my wife - who had a Masters degree,
whose family had money, whose father had gone to MIT, whose whole
family had gone to college - and I just asked her out.  And the rest,
as they say, is history!

So my friend having been in your shoes - my suggestion is ASK HER OUT!! 

As the Nike ad says: "JUST DO IT!"

It can be very difficult to assess how interested someone may be in
you, as I learned from an experience many years ago.

I met a young man at a city science fair (we were both finalists, but
from different schools). We struck up a conversation that turned into
several hours of companionship. He didn't ask me out, and I was too
timid to ask him.

Many years later, I re-encountered this young man. As it turned out,
he had been quite interested in me at our first meeting, but he didn't
think I was similarly interested in him. Each of us had so little
self-esteem that we assumed lack of interest, even though the mutual
attraction should have been obvious.

The worst thing that can happen if you ask for a girl's phone number
is that maybe she won't want to give it to you.

If you don't ask, you certainly won't get that phone number. 

So my advice is this:

ASK.

just4fun:

Thanks for the advise and the sharing of your experience. I am in the
exact same situation as you were. I have thought about this too much,
have had plans in my head but never get the gut to carry them out.

pinkfreud:
Thanks for the comment. My friends have told me the exact same thing:
The chance is probably 1 in a millionth, but it is definitely zero if
I don't give it a try.

I have overheard, several weeks ago, that she broke up with her
boyfriend. Should I ask her if she has boyfriend before doing anything
else? My friends said this question is too personal to be asked at
this time because we are not that close yet so it should be none of my
business. Maybe I can ask her friends about that? Hmm.... I am not too
sure about this.

I have, after all the reading, decided to just go forth and let her
know I like her on Monday. What I did before was just like chitchat
between classmates but I will make it explicit on Monday. I am
thinking to ask her friends if she has a boyfriend but don't know if I
should do that.

I wouldn't.

Getting back . . . ahem . . . to your original question about 'what is
Western convention?' I'd say Western convention is to be much more
direct and upfront.  It's very Eastern (Asian convention, East Indian
convention) to find every possible back door approach.  Who are these
friends of yours who keep telling such-and-such is none of your
business?  (What background do they hail from?)  If you are interested
in her, why wouldn't you want and need to know if she is already
involved with someone?  Also, the cliche dynamic for college age kids
is so weird (see Pink's comment above); it is rife with projection and
poor self esteem; I wouldn't ask her friends; they're likely to
somehow lead you astray. You need to get past the lions at the gate
and develop a real relationship with her; she'll appreciate it even
though she may not even know what hit her . . .

ts

Thanks, I think you are right. What I have been thinking to do is
quite Eastern. I will go directly to her on Monday. Hmm..... I'll let
you know what the outcome is. I don't think I can ask her out for
lunch coz I don't think I can do it right now. I'll ask her for her
MSN to let her know that I am interested in her. Then talk to her more
often during the week and ask her out for dinner over the weekend. I
hope I can carry this out smoothly. Wish me good luck.

BTW, forgot to ask.

You mentioned that I do not need to know whether the girl I like has
boyfriend already. Here's the problem. I mean, I think it is NOT
morally wrong to pursue a girl who already has a boyfriend, as long as
she is not married, of course. However, it just doesn't feel right to
do. I once heard somebody talking to a radio host about pursue a girl
who already has a boyfriend. That radio host, supposedly a doctor of
some kind, said there is nothing more stupid than pursue a girl who is
already involved with somebody else. Maybe I misunderstood what you
were trying to say. I guess I can get that message after I try ask her
out; therefore, no need to get that info from her friends.

I certainly wish you all the luck in the world when you meet up with her on Monday.

phew..........
I was very nerveous but I have, eventually, done it.
It is no longer just a plan in my head now.
I said I'd like to know her a bit more and if she would like to have
dinner some time over the weekend. Her answer: Yeah, sure. Then she
gave me her cell number.

From what I have overheard, I think she is dating somebody else right
now. But at least, this is a good start for me.

Now what I need to do is brainstorm some topics. Since I have to go
pick her up and eat dinner somewhere else, there will be a lot of time
and I need to find things to talk about.

Any suggestions?

Also, are there any Do's and Dont's for a first date?