Well, some of you may have recognized my name already. :P
Anyway, I have finally made the move. She has accepted the invitation
for a dinner this weekend. I think it doesn't mean too much right now
because  she just did what most nice girls would do. After all, it is
just a dinner. But
this is a good start for me anyways.

So here I am, looking for help from you once again. I would like to
know if there are any Do's and Dont's for a first date. I know the
topics we will be talking about should not involve any politics or
religion. But are there any other things that I should watch out for?
One of my female friends suggested me to bring some flowers when I go
pick that girl up. But I think this may be a little bit awkward to do.

I'd like to hear your opinions.

Thanks!

---

Clarification of Question by ultimateapocalypse-ga on 25 Nov 2004 21:31 PST

It has been postponed to next weekend coz she has to work. I guess I
will have a few more days to prepare myself then.

---

Clarification of Question by ultimateapocalypse-ga on 03 Dec 2004 15:24 PST

I think she is silently saying "NO".

OK, I asked her once again on Monday if she would like to go out
sometime this weekend. She said she need to find out her work schedule
first, which normally would be available to her on Tuesday. When I ask
her again on Wednesday, she said she still haven't got the schedule
but will know that the next day for sure. Then I could not find her in
school on Thursday, called her cell phone but nobody answerd. I left a
message but nobody replied. Today she still didn't come to school. I
called her cell again and she answered. So we started talking and then
suddently the line just went dead. My cell phone didn't show any
problem with signal or anything. So I dialed again several times and
all went straight to answer machine.

Of course, these can all be just miraculous coincidences but I think
it is very unlikely.

I wonder if the next time I get a chance to talk to her, should I ask
her again then say something like "Don't feel bad to say no. It's OK
if you don't want to"  I am so frustrated and tired. Final exams are
coming up in 10 days and I just want to get this thing straight.

Congratulations. I was keenly following your other post a few days
back. Well taking a nice gift for her or a bunch of flowers is
definitely a nice idea. I had done the same a few years back and am
now happily married to my date.

And do not try to plan everything in advance lest you stop looking
like a robot. Let the things take their own course. Believe me it's
not as difficult as it appears to be. You'll find thoughts and ideas
automatically coming to you after a few minutes.

All the very best.

Wow ... I'm almost as nervous as you ... 

Here are some DO's:

Do be interested in her and what she has to say;

Do be charming and attentive;

Do laugh in all the right places;

Do treat her as a lady;

Do compliment her on her appearance;

And some DON'Ts

Don't drink too much alcohol;

Don't eat any garlic;

Don't be too pushy;

Don't stand on her toes;

Don't pick your nose or your teeth;

Don't cough or sneeze over the table or in her face;

Don't take out your false teeth;

Don't take any notice if she takes out her false teeth;

Don't take off your wig;

Don't take off her wig;

I would give the flowers a miss. Some people don't like flowers!

Good luck!

(Do let us know how it goes.)

Ultimate,

Remain the ultimate. Be yourself. Like an enthralled audience, leave
her wanting more. Show some respectful disinterest with confidence and
need of no needs.

Allow her to come to you. Easy. Forget the flowers. Flowers are to be
given when the lady least expects it, simply because you appreciate
her for being her, not to be dictated by tradition of dates nor
Valentine's Day. View your first date purely as a reason to set up the
next. It need not be orchestrated, but rather natural. Allow her the
chance of suggestion. Keep your suggestions very general, as in "we
must catch up again", without pressure. If she comes to you, it is
because it is meant to be so. If you force it, she will feel obliged.
Then you will start the "but you said", "I said" thing. Not worth the
effort when forced.

She may then surround herself with her network of support as women
tend to do. That is because women are far smarter than us blokes. Do
not succumb to this mindset. Be of your own mind. Do not fear, as she
will speak highly of you in her defense against any ill meaning
perpetrators. You have nothing to lose in exercising your confidence
of yourself, provided that you never become chauvinistic. Strike the
balance and reap your rewards.

Phil

Well said Phil.

Well, the campaign seems to be moving along

I too suggest that you skip the flowers, simply because this is the
first date, and it might seem a bit forward. Flowers next time -
she'll like that.

You Americans seem to have side-by-side seating in some restaurants,
avoid that, sit opposite her so you can watch her.

Also avoid excessive physical contact, unless she initiates it, and
even then, don't go over the top.

Remember, this is a reconnaissance exercize for both of you
- you know that you physically fancy her, but you do not know her personality
- heck, you might find she is a shallow dim wit - hopefully not but ...

As others have said, try to listen rather than talk, especially if you
are a bit nervous, in which case you could brag and gabble, but
primarily because most people like to talk about their favourite
subject - themselves.

Basically you want to find out about her. 
People like to be gently interrogated.

By that, I don't mean be silent, but try to do 25% of the conversation.

It might also be an idea to Google on 'body language', it is amazing
how much people give away subconsciously.

Now, Ahem, do not carry a condom or avail yourself of a handy machine.
It is tacky to 'be prepared'.

You'll probably know this Chinese proverb:
   'Be careful what you want, the chances are that you will get it'

Congrats Ultimate!!!!!!!!!!!

Hmmmm...let me see...

I agree with scrapping the flowers.... too geeky.

My suggestions are:

Be on time.... I hate men that are constantly late.

Smile often 

Don't be touchy feely...in fact, don't touch her at all unless she initiates it.

Keep the conversation light and always ask her about her interests , etc.

Don't stretch out the date unless she shows real interest.

Thank her for the evening at the end of the date and ask her if you
may call her again.

Don't call the next night. Most women ( myself included ) like a little intrigue ;)

Please let us know how the date turned out!!!

Ummm, Bryan.....

On my last date I made the mistake of taking out my false teeth and
now I've lost them :(

Steph53

Thanks for all the replies!

A few other questions still. Should I ask her what her favourite
cuisines are or should I make it as a surprize? (She may or may not
like it though)

Another thing is I once overheard the conversation between her and her
friends about a date she had. Then one of her friends laughed and said
"He closed it wrong". So, I wonder what the proper closing is.

More on the flowers.

I have asked a few Caucasian girls I know about the flower thing. They
all said that it's EVERY GIRL's secret wish to have guys giving her
flowers, but guys somehow just don't get it. Also, even if they don't
like the guy, they'd be more patient just for the flower's sake.

Best advice I can give you is be a good listener.  

As for the flowers, I personally didn't like it if a brand new first
date brought or sent flowers.  I felt it was a bit over the top... not
necessary.

You can ask her what kind of food she'd be interested in - that's a nice touch. :)

And... CONGRATULATIONS!  You're doing great.

Best regards,
tlspiegel

I recommend against flowers.  She would not expect them, so even if
it's something she'd like, you aren't disappointing her by not
bringing them.  And there is a risk that she'd consider flowers to be
over the top (at least I would).  So you'll be safer if you skip the
flowers.  Once you know her better, you'll have a better idea of
whether she'd appreciate such a thing.

Regarding food, if she won't give you a clear answer on what foods she
prefers, ask whether there are any types of cuisine that she won't
eat.

Gosh, I like being right!!  Ouch, I just hurt myself patting myself on
the back.  Oh yeah, that's me doin' a little dance...

Now for a little bit of advice.  Just be yourself.  If you're a flower
givin' kind of guy -- then give flowers. It has very little to do with
what is "cool" and what is "not cool".  If you are a flower giving
kind of guy - then giving flowers will "work". Why, because that is
who you are.  Now, if you NOT a flower giving kind of guy - then you
giving flowers will look like you trying to be something you are not.

Me: I am not a flower giving kind of guy. So I don't give flowers. 
I'm a Sees Candy kind of guy. Anything over 2 pounds and......

As far as food - take her somewhere that has a lot of different kinds
of dishes.  Like Denny's...  (It's a joke!!) Make it easy.  Don't try
and impress, just BE YOURSELF and take her someplace you are
comfortable!  If you're comfortable then the night will go great.

Conversation: You talk and then she talks - try to balance the
conversation.  Tell her a little about yourself - and listen as she
tells you a little about herself.

Now if the conversation is dullsville - start asking questions.  Example:

Do you have any brothers or sisters?

Yes - Wow, so do I or I'm a only child - do you guys get along? (note
your answer then a followup question)

No - Wow, I'm a only child Too! or You're so lucky I have a brother
and sister - did you like being an only child?

From here you can ask questions (always tie her answer into something
that relates to you - see above) about her family which can lead to
question about High School - which can lead to question about college
- which leads to question about her brother and sister going to school
which leads to her parents and if they went to college which leads to
the family pet - which leads to cleaning up after the family pet which
leads to her brother and sister cleaning up after the pet - which
leads to cleaning up after the pet before school or after school -
which leads to going out to dinner and having to leave the pet at
home....  I think you get the idea.  Questions are easy to ask.

Just try to be yourself.  Tell her about yourself and expect her to
tell you about herself.  And she will - it's human nature.

Look into her eyes and smile.  It will tell her you like her.

Kiss good night? - Only if it's your style.  Just be yourself.  

Oh yeah, remember she is just as or more scared then you.

If the dinner goes will - ask her if she'd like to go to a movie. So
in other words - know when the movie starts so that dinner ends at
about the right time.  You might even pick a place to eat that is
close to the movie.

So when's the big date?

Good luck!

And remember It's "Just 4 Fun"  nothing more and nothing less.

Boy that Probonico, he is a Whacko Burger Deluxe, huh?

here's a piece of advice my mother gave me years ago on the subject of
table etiquette:

If anyone at the table breaks wind, make sure no one notices that you noticed . . .

even if the candle flames turn blue . . . !

(and my mother was raised in Beverly Hills!)

ts

Thanks!

This will be my first date with a girl I like. That's why I am doing
all this so I will be prepared. Just want to be prepared for every
possible situation so I would not look dumb and don't know what to
do/say when whatever happens. I just hope everything will go smoothly.
It will be sometime this weekend, I have not yet decided the exact
date since she needs to check her working schedule first.

BTW, what should I say in the end? How about "It's been fun. We should
catch up later, maybe after the final exams. What do you think?" Will
this work? Like I said above, I overheard her friend comment on
another date experience she had. Her friend said "he closed it wrong".
So I wonder what a proper closure is and if my sentence above will
work.

Any ideas or suggestions?

Too much planning and forethought can ruin the spontaneity of getting
to know a new person. Please don't script your closing line in
advance. If you cannot be your natural self and relax with this
person, you aren't really giving her the chance to know you. If this
young woman likes you, she will like you even if you don't have a
clever line for every occasion. If she is so shallow as to demand a
prefabricated, "perfect" experience, then you're better off without
her.

A little bit of hesitation and clumsiness is expected on a first date.
Not everyone is equally gifted socially. If it is any comfort, be
aware that women worry about these things, too, and we feel the same
kinds of anxieties.

You sound like a conscientious and caring person. This girl is
fortunate to have you as her escort, and I bet she knows it.

If you have the chance, you should sit in the bookstore and skim "Men
are from Mars, Women are from Venus."  Don't try to be Mr. Fix-it,
just listen.  The book is meant for people in long-term relationships,
but it contains valuable insights about women, imo.

As for ending the date, as long as you don't ask to kiss her, you will
be ok.  Just grap her hip and peck her on the cheek like it is no big
deal.  Confidence is everything.  Sometime during the date, find some
future common interest, such as a movie that is out that she wants to
see (what a coincidence, you were thinking the same thing).  Then as
you are saying goodbye, you can casually ask for the next date.  "Hey,
we should see that movie..."

Be confident.  Have fun.  Don't worry about impressing her, just do
the right things, and she will be impressed.

One last point. After your date becomes your love (which I'm confident
is going to happen), ask her to have a look at this link:

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=432729

And do not forget to let us know how it goes :-)

Cheerio and all the best.

hehe, I will, if she became my love.
I write a lot better than I speak. So it could be a bit difficult for
me to make good impression. All I can say is I will try my best and
hope my best will be good enough.

You write better than you speak?

OK ... Here's what we do ...

You PRETEND to have lost your voice and so you take me along as your mouthpiece.

Naturally, I will join you at your table but we also fill the joint
with loads of other GA researchers and users. They will play parts as
other guests, waiters, the orchestra, the singers, hatcheck girl,
commissionaire, bar staff, cabaret acts ... The Lot.

As you would expect, we will hide a mike in the flowers (Yeah we
really need the flowers as a prop) and everybody can listen in through
hidden earpieces.

Then we overwhelm her with smart one-liners and a staggering range of
erudition ...

Wow!

Of course, I get to take her home afterwards.

Well, whaddythink?

Hey Ultimate,

Don't trust that Probo :) .. just stick with Uncle Phil's advice. The
last thing you need is a crowd .. especially not a crowd of keyboard
pushers like us. We might even start asking for $2 for every question
on your date!

Once you have succeeded, and you will, we can work on your second
date. I then want you to start thinking in terms of how to make her
laugh, make her cry, bring her back to her comfort zone, leaving her
momentarily (with bated breath for your return) to contemplate your
complexities, energy and gentlemanly ways after taking her through
that rollercoaster of emotions. But, I am getting ahead of myself
here. Let's stick to your first date first.

Seriously Ultimate, it seems that you have made some friends here. I
can see why too. Your words are those of a genuine young chap who
wants to do the right thing by your prospect and of yourself. You
deserve happiness, I trust that she is deserving of your well meaning
intention.

Well, I recall that your date is this weekend. It's countdown time
buddy. You might care to re-read Winsplit's advice. What a way to blow
her out of the water if you feel that things remain iffy. I'm only
unsure about the timing of presenting her with say a printed handout
of all that has been written here. Too early and she might run away
wondering who the hell these people are. On the night of the date?
hhhmmm .. keep it in your left inside suit pocket, but be slow to hand
it over. Maybe just a last resort, but sure is cute insurance.

Good luck, and do make sure you report back to the masses here with your result. 

Phil

Hello? Hello?  Anyone home?

How'd it go?

You okay?

Irene ... 

Where have you been? 

Living on a rock maybe?

It's been postponed until next week!

oh my yes, I've been too busy creating mischief in other venues . . .

 . . . and hastily checked into this one without reading 'the minutes'

so Ultimate, you have ANOTHER week of anticipation!?!

I don't envy you, but . . . pretty exciting, huh?

ts

Yeah, another week. I have been having dreams with that girl in it
ever since I asked her last Monday. :P

I think I also need to work on my social skills. I am not very good at
interpersonal skills and myself is quite an introvert person. I just
think that this time the attraction from this girl is so overwhelming
that it has overcome my own shyness. I often see her talking to other
people and they always seem to have things to talk about. For me,
that's one of the problems. Anyway, another week of anticipation and
prepration........

Hey!!!!!!!!!!!

What happened to the date??????????????
And who could have known it would postponed and why ???

Steph53

Oops...

I just read the question again...excuse me...duh

Steph53

Well it might be too late for a comment... but here is the best advice
I believe no one has given you yet.

Most women want strong guys who are sure and in control of them
selves. The strongest statement you can make in this direction is not
to be bully or pushy or a redneck. The strongest is to be honest about
yourself, your feelings, who you are, what you like and want, 
basically to be completely honest!!

By simply telling how things are. Tell her that you were pretty
nervous about this date, tell her why - and just tell her how you
felt, and the funny questions that went through your mind.... shall I
do this or that?... - this often then can turn out to be a very funny
conversation that takes out any pressure...

I think this always leaves a very strong impression, she will
immediately see that you are not trying to be someone you are not -
which will set you immediately apart from most other guys. Then there
are two things that can happen as a result of that...

1) She doesnt like what she sees, or she doesnt like who you are,
which by the way is an excellent time saver - and saves you a lot of
pain. Too many wait to be honest or not lie anymore until they are
married to find out that they dont fit together. You can have the most
beautiful women, if you guys dont fit together she will dirve you
nuts. So save this time to find the most beautiful woman that matches
who you are.



2) The other possibility is that she likes what she sees and she opens
up as well and gives you the same honesty back. With relationships its
kind of funny. You need to give first, what you expect in return. If
you give her trust, she will give trust back. If you give honesty you
get the same back.

So be honest and open, tell her who you are, the goal is that she gets
and idea who you are, what your dreams are, what your passions are,
what makes you laugh, smile, cry... If she likes that she will come
back, and if she doesnt even better.

The goal of a date is not to make her like you. The goal is to show
her who you are, and to find out who she is, so both of you can decide
whether you like each other. If you BOTH do, the sky is the limit.

Also remember that women are like an elektric stove (take their time
to get hot or interested in you), while guys are like gas ovens
(immediately hot or interested)....  - so you probably feel a lot more
for her then the other way around, even if you are the perfect match.
So dont overrun her with your feelings for her, give her time to learn
who you are.

Mobile1:

Thanks for the excellent advise. It is not too late and will never be.
I think telling her that I was nerveous would be an excellent thing to
do. Like you said, it will very likely to take the pressure away from
conversation. And I think what you have said is true. I have very
strong feeling to her and I think, at this point, she doesn't feel a
thing to me. lol, that's funny, isn't it? :P I've got the same advise
from friends: don't change who you are into who she likes, just be
yourself and let her decide. Of course, knowing this is one thing, but
actually be able to do it is something else. I like her very much coz
she fits the image I have for my dream girl perfectly. hmm.......
Anyway, guess I'll know, or I hope I will know after the date.

She still don't know if she will be free from work this weekend yet. I
hope she isn't just trying to find excuses coz that will leave me with
no chance of progressing further.

I think she is silently saying "NO".

OK, I asked her once again on Monday if she would like to go out
sometime this weekend. She said she need to find out her work schedule
first, which normally would be available to her on Tuesday. When I ask
her again on Wednesday, she said she still haven't got the schedule
but will know that the next day for sure. Then I could not find her in
school on Thursday, called her cell phone but nobody answerd. I left a
message but nobody replied. Today she still didn't come to school. I
called her cell again and she answered. So we started talking and then
suddently the line just went dead. My cell phone didn't show any
problem with signal or anything. So I dialed again several times and
all went straight to answer machine.

Of course, these can all be just miraculous coincidences but I think
it is very unlikely.

I wonder if the next time I get a chance to talk to her, should I ask
her again then say something like "Don't feel bad to say no. It's OK
if you don't want to"  I am so frustrated and tired. Final exams are
coming up in 10 days and I just want to get this thing straight.

Well, I just called again. Somebody finally answered this time: "This
is not xxx, who is speaking?" I said "I am yyy" then "oh, you got the
wrong number" The number was definitely correct so I guess she just
hiding from me that's why she let her friend answer the phone just to
make sure it is not me.

I think she could easily say no. Maybe because when I frist asked her,
it was too abrupt so she said yes. Then later she just been trying to
find excuses and eventually just hide away.

Yes ... It certainly looks as though she is giving you the brush off
so put it behind you.

Sorry, you didn't get to date her but That's Life.

Don't worry ... You will find someone even better ... Someone who
thinks that you are truly wonderful.

Better luck next time!

Yeah, I think so too. Guess I should focus on my final exams now. But
I don't know if I could do that.

Hey Mr Ultimate,

Hang in there. You have 240 hours remaining until your finals. Make
the most of those hours. Schedule your time now good buddy. Make sure
you plan your study time plus exercise plus heaps of good brain food
and lots of water. And get some sleep too will ya?

As for your lady friend, I guess she also has final exams. A stressful
time for all, no doubt. Don't add further stress to your crucial exam
time for the sake of a lady. It's only 10 days. Yes I know, 10 long
days. Her time will come. So will yours. Consider approaching her
again after your exams. You might then want to print out all that you
have written here to let her know how much she means to you. (Don't
forget to cut out the bits you don't want her to see, like this one).

You're a good genuine young man Mr Ultimate. But now is the time for
you to focus on you for your future. A little bit of polite short-term
disinterest toward your lady in question might in fact sort the truth
from presumed thought.

Ensure that you report back here with your exam results. You never
know, some of the resident ladies here may even organise a party in
your honour!

Train hard, work easy. Play hard, have fun.

Phil

Has nobody noticed that she's avoiding you ?  If she was interested,
she'd be more available.  Don't take it too hard.  Sometimes it
clicks; sometimes it doesn't.  Forget her and move on.

Thanks for the reply.
I will try to focus on my review.
I don't think showing her this and the previous topics will do any
good since she is giving me a chance.

I think I will ask her again after the exam and tell her that it is OK
to say no. Or something like that. I think it is more frustrating to
hang in midair than to get a definitive answer. What do you think?

Look, we're all rooting for you but she's already said NO.  Sometimes
people don't want to say the word but actions always speak louder than
words.  Let it go; move on and I would suggest trying to figure out if
a girl is right for you AFTER you meet her.  You aren't even dealing
with her anymore.  She isn't causing you any problems.  You are
creating your own at this point.

Good luck.

Yeah, I know and I agree with what you said.
I'll try my best but the problem is, let me quote from Morpheus in
Matrix, "There is a difference between knowing the path and walking
the path" XD

I say don't let an absent lady spoil a good night.  I'd suggest buying
yourself some flowers for your room. Go out to a good restaurant, get
some good nosh and enjoy the evening. And when you do get a date be
genuine, in other words, DO NOT pretend to be someone you are not. How
ever you 'act' on the 1st date is how you will be acting on the
subsequent days. Don't lie to any lady and if she likes the genuine
you, then you got it made mate.

I am sure you have seen the email that went around about things you
should know before dating someone's daughter, but here is a response
about someone courting a father's son.... thought you might find it
interesting:

http://www.deadprotocol.com/html/10_things_you_should_know_befo.html

Just a fun little essay