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Q: Kilowatts of power generation by solar. ( No Answer,   4 Comments )
Question  
Subject: Kilowatts of power generation by solar.
Category: Science > Technology
Asked by: fairchdr-ga
List Price: $20.00
Posted: 30 Nov 2004 19:00 PST
Expires: 30 Dec 2004 19:00 PST
Question ID: 436387
What would be the power generated in millions of kilowatt hours by
placeing solar panels within all the high tension power line right of
way properties within the continental US. These properties are
typically very wide approx. 600 to 900 feet across.
Assuming each panel as approx. 5x3 foot physical size. Each panel
generates 160 watts at 24 volts in full sunlight. Use three assuptions
of useable land area as 80%, 50%, 30%. Also assume 9 averaged climate
segments across the US. ie; Northeast, east central, east south, etc.
Average sunlight during the 4 seasons in each climate segment.
Using this data, calculate total panels used. Linear mileage of
property available for solar use. A chart showing total power
generation in each segment per season in millions of kilowatt hours.
Do not consider, power gain by hi voltage induction to ground.
Answer  
There is no answer at this time.

Comments  
Subject: Re: Kilowatts of power generation by solar.
From: neilzero-ga on 06 Dec 2004 16:29 PST
 
This appears to be an arithmetic problem. 160 watts from 15 square
feet of photovoltaic panel is realistic for a clear cloudless June 22
at about 1 pm. Lets assume one kwh = kilowatt hour per panel for June
22, even though this is a bit pesismistic, if it is clear and sunny
all day from 7 am to 8 pm. We can get almost 2kwh by tilting the
panels 20 to 30 degrees toward the South, but that will add lots of
wind loading, making the support structure costly, plus 2/3ds of the
area will be lost to prevent panels from shading each other during
part of the day and part of the year.
 If the panels are very close to horizontal and tightly packed to
prevent the growth of grass and shrubs between the panels; we do need
to consider how to dispose of rain water. It could be collected and
sold for a profit in some local. For about 90% of the USA (if we
include Alaska and high elevations, a 50 degrees tilt to the south or
south west may be preferable to minimise snow and ice buildup. This
also allows workers to reach the panels for shrub, snow and ice
removal without walking on the active surface of the panels. There
will be considerable cost to prevent children from playing on the
panels. Indistructable is too costly, I think. In most cases a pole
line road is essential for power line inspection vehicles. The outer
edge of the right away will be shaded during part of the day, so a 15+
foot easment is likely prudent. Let's estimate a million miles 1/10
mile wide = 100,000 square miles. This may be optimistic as various
reasons will arise for not doing this, such as forest fire access, and
medium voltage power lines often have less than 600 foot right away. A
square mile has 27,878,400 square feet times 10.666 watts per square
foot = 297,369,580 watts = 0.297 gigawatts per square mile =
29,736.958 gigawatts for the entire USA. This is more electricity than
can be sold even at one cent per KWH at 1 PM on June 22. It likely
exceeds by 100 what can be sold for 4 cents per KWH from 10 am to 4 pm
most days. This is because much of existing capacity powered by fosil
fuel will be needed daily during peak demand which August though May
occurs after the photo voltaic panels stop producing electricity due
to sun set. Your plan does have merit and could supply 1% of the USA
energy needs, perhaps a bit more with large taxpayer subsidies. There
is some concern about the polution produced by manufacuring thousands
of square miles of photovoltaic panels.   Neil
Subject: Re: Kilowatts of power generation by solar.
From: neilzero-ga on 06 Dec 2004 17:26 PST
 
oops; I neglested to account for the 1/3 of the power line that would
be shaded by polution and/or clouds at 1 PM on June 22 and for the 4
time zones, so we need perhaps 2 million miles of high voltage power
line to produce the 27,000 gigawatts = 27 billion kilowatts = 27
million megawatts, which we can't use now, but may be able to use by
2050 which is likely the soonest we could complete such a massive
project.  We do perhaps have the 2 million miles equivelent if we use
medium voltage line right-a-ways and roof tops of new construction
houses and other structures, but we will be moving into locations that
are often cloudy mid afternoon when the wholesale price of electricity
starts creeping up as the demand is increasing. For this reason
faceing the panels south-west reduces fosil fuel consumption and gets
almost the same revenew, even though it means almost no power before
10 am.
 At present we typically loose 1/2 the power when we send the power
more than 100 miles, and present technology for storing energy would
require huge subsidies.  Neil
Subject: Re: Kilowatts of power generation by solar.
From: neilzero-ga on 07 Dec 2004 01:59 PST
 
oops again: Unless the solar panel is stearable it only makes
electricity about 10 hours per day even on 23 hour days in Alaska.
This is because the protective coating on the solar cels is opac to
very low sun angles. It reflects most of the sun light falling on it
at low angles.
 You suggested 24 volts, but I think solar panels should be connected
in series to produce about 1000 volts which is the upper limit for the
dc input to present inverters which produce about 700 RMS volts 60
hertz ac. Costly transformers are needed to put the output of perhaps
10,000 inverters on the high voltage power line which might be as high
as 800,000 volts. For this reason the medium voltage power lines may
be better, even if they have much narrower right-a-ways.
 In locals where people live within a mile of the power line some of
the panels can be in series to produce 240 volts dc center tapped for
the homes. 95% of household appliences can be designed to run on 120
volts or 240 volts dc, thus illiminating the 10% loss in the
inverters. This should be practical as a hour of peak demand time can
be stored in batteries, which will voltage regulate the dc, plus
millions of people world wide live within a mile of a suitable power
line for making solar electricity, so producing the appliences is
practical with millions of potential customers. Producing and
connecting ten billion inverters and a million transformers is also
several percent of the project cost, plus a source of much polution.
Will the inverters be long term reliable in weather and near by
lightening strikes?
 Perhaps 2/3 of the power line milage is in locals that are cloudy
more than 1/2 of the time when the sun is more than 20 degrees above
the horizon. Alaska has few long power lines, and the sun is more than
20 degrees above the horizon only in June and July, plus possibly the
end of May, in Alaska.   Neil
Subject: Re: Kilowatts of power generation by solar.
From: neilzero-ga on 09 Dec 2004 02:37 PST
 
Before we can put photovoltaic panels on 30% or 0.001% of the usable
land, we need to do some pilot programs in the places that will be
least costly, but productive, but will demonstrate the much larger
development. Since the transformers that connect to an 800,000 volt
power line are costly, we should give preference to locations where
they exist already. One transformer connected to one of the three
phases will do, if the power companies ever do that. Often these
transformers operate near full capacity near the peak demand period,
but this is when the solar produces little or no power. Let's assume
we have located a transformer or group of transformers that can
tolerate 15 megawatts into the low voltage side most any time except
the peak demand period. The low voltage side is 5000 volts, which is
about as low as will be available. We connect 8 inverters in series to
produce the 5000 volts, 60 hertz ac, so they supply 625 volts each on
the average.  We need enough solar panels to put 2 megawatts input to
each inverter under weak sun conditions. Surplus megawatts can go into
ordinary deep cycle batteries, when the sun is brighter and/or into
other power lines nearby or make hydrogen and oxygen by electrolysis. 
One million solar panels will supply 160 megawatts under brightest sun
conditions. The 16 megawatts needed will thus be available  under weak
sun conditions.  The inverters may be able to put as little as one
megawatt into the transformers under still weaker sun light. The
inverters need to be disconnected from the transformers when they
cannot supply one megawatt or more, as damaged inverters are likely if
the transformer delivers power into the inverter outputs.  I'm
assuming the inverters will use the other megawatt, as their
efficiency is not 100%.
 Two megawatt inverters likely are not available, so several series
strings of 8 inverters will likely be needed, which will make for
improved operational flexability and some output when a component
fails.
 The million solar panels require 15 million square feet if they are
tightly packed horizontal. About 45 million square feet if the panels
are tilted toward the sun. 45 million square feet is about 1.7 square
miles, which is most efficient in a circle with the transformer in the
center, so as to keep leads running from the million solar panels as
short as practical.   Neil

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