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Subject:
"Multiverse" (aggregate of separate universes): semantics or cosmology?
Category: Science > Astronomy Asked by: nautico-ga List Price: $5.00 |
Posted:
04 Dec 2004 05:02 PST
Expires: 06 Dec 2004 13:30 PST Question ID: 437950 |
The Nov 29 edition of TIME contained yet another article about multiple universes, or a multiverse. It seems to me that the notion of a multiverse consisting of numerous universes besides our own is more semantic than cosmological. The Oxford English Dictionary defines "universe" as "all existing matter, space, and other phenomena regarded collectively." Stated otherwise, the universe is everything, both observed and unobserved. Linguistically, "everything" admits to no additional components. Why then do cosmological theorists insist on defining "universe" as something less than everything? Why not speak instead of the possibility of still unobservable dimensions within that singular whole, regardless of whether each possible component is postulated to differ dramatically from all the others? While I realize that pure science often uses terms that vary in definition from the same words used by laypersons, scientists who seek to gain public support for esoteric research would be well advised not to wander too far away from well established common usage. Stephen Hawking and the late Carl Sagan come to mind as two physicists/cosmologists with the savvy to grasp that. Lesser lights, however, throw clarity of language to the wind by injecting concepts that make no logical sense to anyone except their ilk. What say you? |
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Subject:
Re: "Multiverse" (aggregate of separate universes): semantics or cosmology?
From: archae0pteryx-ga on 04 Dec 2004 11:57 PST |
Nautico, This seems to be a question that calls for comments and not one that can really be addressed definitively by research, so I'm going to venture an opinion. I agree with your (inferred) position that the distinction is semantic rather than scientific for exactly the reasons you say. But I don't think it is necessarily an obfuscating distinction. Many people speak of the universe with the qualifier "known," even though it must necessarily be the case that far more of the "known universe" is unknown than known. I think this expression and the thinking behind it acknowledge a faith in the consistent manifestation of the laws of physics, even if we don't know what they all are and even if some of them seem to be more like religion than science as it is commonly understood. We imagine and trust that as more becomes known, it will appear as a logical extension of what we already know, and that even when new observations turn everything we think we know on its head, it will still occur in ways that can eventually be explained by our human reasoning and understanding. We are not particularly good at envisioning things that can't be envisioned by human beings. Every construct we have is by definition a construct that human beings are capable of entertaining. So any notion of the universe that we have is going to be limited by the ability of human beings to conceive and describe, even when using words like "inconceivable" and "indescribable" and "ineffable." We fondly think we grasp the meaning of "infinity." In this way and in this sense, the universe exists only within the minds of human beings. Ultimately what we call human knowledge is really nothing but a picture of the inside of our minds. Even more limiting than the scope of the human mind is the human capacity for voicing thought in language, and even more limiting than that is the ability to use language in such a way that it gives rise to the same thought in another mind. When we speak of the universe, I think what we typically mean is "the universe as we (however poorly and imperfectly) understand it," or, said another way, "everything-there-is that fits into our best and most accepted scientific framework for everything-there-is." So when scientists want to talk about any kind of alternate realities, when they want to express multiplicities on a universal scale, when they want to change frameworks, they have to use language that subdivides the idea of "universe" as we know it, or else they have to use language that posits more than one set of existences that compose everything-there-is. It seems to me that the language of multiplicity, which is still just language, does less violence to our collective notion of "universe" than the language of subdivision, which, to our typically narrow horizons, is easily understood as something less than everything-there-is. In fact, it is probably a fair reflection of our time and place and culture, our mentality that says "I want it all" and so does my neighbor, and we both think we can have it, a habit of thought that uses unqualified superlatives ("absolutely! fantastic! totally!") as mild intensifiers, so that you can have the ultimate vacation experience, extreme snowboarding, magnificent accessories, and an utterly perfect sandwich spread, that we can more readily think in multiple totalities than we can contemplate variation within everything-there-is on dimensions that generate simultaneous exclusive everythings. My opinion is based more in language than in science and may exhibit a corresponding bias. Archae0pteryx |
Subject:
Re: "Multiverse" (aggregate of separate universes): semantics or cosmology?
From: nautico-ga on 04 Dec 2004 12:14 PST |
Archae.... "My opinion is based more in language than in science...." And that's my point! This is all about language, not science. If one accepts the denotation of "universe" (forget about connotations) as "everything" known and unknown, then it would seem easy to subdivide "everything" into constructs that enable further investigation. Why is that so hard? Why is it necessary to postulate other "everythings"? Beats me. |
Subject:
Re: "Multiverse" (aggregate of separate universes): semantics or cosmology?
From: archae0pteryx-ga on 04 Dec 2004 12:28 PST |
Nautico, I didn't miss your point. I understood it. >I agree with your (inferred) position that the distinction is >semantic rather than scientific for exactly the reasons you say. >But I don't think it is necessarily an obfuscating distinction. And my point, simply put and without argumentation, is just that in addressing their audience (readers of weekly newsmagazines, for example), I think scientists--and reporters on scientific subjects--are choosing language that the majority can somewhat more readily understand, because neither way is really more nearly right than the other. Perhaps they would put it another way in addressing a roomful of certifiably abstract thinkers. My closing line simply exposes my bias as a contributor of an opinion and does not speak to the bias of the scientists you are talking about. Archae0pteryx |
Subject:
Re: "Multiverse" (aggregate of separate universes): semantics or cosmology?
From: pinkfreud-ga on 04 Dec 2004 12:47 PST |
Howdy, Nautico. The "multiverse" thing bothers me, too. I still haven't grasped the concept that there are infinitely many infinities. This reminds me somehow of the apocryphal story whose punch line is "It's turtles all the way down." You may enjoy this article. Or, if not, your counterpart in a parallel universe may: http://www.csicop.org/si/2001-09/fringe-watcher.html |
Subject:
Re: "Multiverse" (aggregate of separate universes): semantics or cosmology?
From: nautico-ga on 04 Dec 2004 14:05 PST |
Hiya, Pink! I'm with you, kid. It all smacks of "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?" (I've always thought 14 was the limit, esp when you factor in the morbidly obese angels.) Interesting article you cited. Methinks astrophysicists come up with this stuff just as constructs from which they can explore further, though I have no idea what they use. Certainly not their fingers. -- Bob (nautico) |
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