Is there any place in the world where one can be aided in suicide
legally (the person is not terminally/physically ill. But is mentally
disturbed. Depressed. A misfit. And thinks he really doesn't belong.
He is making the choice in full awareness without the influence of
drugs or alcohol. He only wants the assistance to die so he doesn't
end up paralyzed or disfigured. He is 22 years old.)

---

Clarification of Question by blackandwhite1234-ga on 03 Feb 2006 14:09 PST

So the clarification is:

Is there any place in the world where one can be assisted by a
physician to suicide if he is chooses so or is mentally ill? (not
physically ill)

---

Clarification of Question by blackandwhite1234-ga on 03 Feb 2006 14:10 PST

Is there any place in the world where one can be assisted by a
physician to suicide if he chooses so or is mentally ill? (not
physically ill)

---

Clarification of Question by blackandwhite1234-ga on 03 Feb 2006 16:02 PST

Is there any place in the world where one can be assisted by a
physician to suicide if he is mentally ill (not physically), or if he
only chooses to, legally?

Dear blackandwhite1234-ga,

Thank you for inviting me to post my comment in the answer box. I'll
be glad to, and also offer you some additional information:

First of all, many thanks to my colleage politicalguru-ga, who
reminded me I had neglected to give you information about Switzerland,
where assisted suicide is also practiced without criminalization and
where, furthermore, it can be done by a non-physician.

However, there is an important distinction to be made between lack of
prosecution, and actual legalization. In fact, Swiss law does not
truly legalize assisted suicide in the same way as Netherlands,
Belgium and Oregon, and voluntary euthanasia is actually illegal. But
rather, Swiss law merely declines to prosecute someone who provides
such assistance, as long as it is not done from "selfish motives."
Here is an interesting comparison and discussion of this point (among
others). Scroll down to just above the "Conclusion" to the section
entitled "Other Countries:"
http://www.internationaltaskforce.org/rpt2005_3.htm 

I couldn't locate a full text of the Swiss code in English, but here
are several more references to and quotes from the law, in addition to
the link given in the comments by magnesium-ga:

http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/326/7383/271
http://www.worldrtd.net/faqs/factsheets/?id=174

All the above notwithstanding, and although the law is likely to
remain as is, Swiss authorities and biomedical ethicists are now
rethinking some parts of it and seeking to interpret it more clearly.
In the "Second Report on the Activities of the Swiss National Advisory
Commission on Biomedical Ethics NEK-CNE" (covering the period February
2003 ? May 2005), it says in part,

"The Commission believes that ethical reasons support the liberal
regulation provided for in Article 115 of the Swiss Criminal Code,
which states that assistance to commit suicide is legal provided that
it is not given for selfish motives. The Commission does not recommend
changing the way this point is handled under criminal law, but feels
that action is required in other areas. In order to do justice to the
problems which have arisen through the phenomenon of right-to-die
associations, the Commission believes that it is necessary to put
these associations under state supervision. This should ensure
compliance with the criteria for due diligence in examining decisions
to assist suicide.

The Commission is also considering a number of special problems, such
as the question of whether individuals with mental disorders should be
assisted to commit suicide. It takes a cautious approach on this
question and calls for psychiatric and psychotherapeutic treatment to
be given precedence. If the desire to commit suicide is an expression
or symptom of a mental illness, then no assistance should be given to
commit suicide. This means that mentally ill people will generally, if
not always, not be given assistance to commit suicide."

Here is a link to the full text of the report:
http://www.nek-cne.ch/en/pdf/jahresb_en_051.pdf 

********************************************************************************

So then. Here is the information previously given in comments: 

There are only three countries in the world where physician assisted
suicide, or voluntary euthanasia, is currently legal. The best known
is Netherlands, which has the most liberal laws concerning this
subject. However, even there one would not be able to get legal
assistance for suicide under the conditions you state. The Dutch
government says,

"1 Can people come from other countries to seek euthanasia in the Netherlands?

"This is impossible, given the need for a close doctor-patient
relationship. The legal procedure for the notification and assessment
of each individual case of euthanasia requires the patient to have
made a voluntary, well-considered request and to be suffering
unbearably without any prospect of improvement. In order to be able to
assess whether this is indeed the case, the doctor must know the
patient well. This implies that the doctor has treated the patient for
some time.

"Granting a request for euthanasia places a considerable emotional
burden on the doctor. Doctors do not approach the matter lightly. From
this point of view too, longstanding personal contact between the
doctor and the patient plays an important role."
http://www.minbuza.nl/default.asp?CMS_NOCOOKIES=YES&CMS_ITEM=MBZ413299

The other country where assisted suicide is legal is Belgium, which
fairly recently passed a law legalizing it. However, "Strict criteria
will have to be met before a patient's wish to end his or her life can
be honoured. Patients will have to be aged over 18 years, be
conscious, have an incurable illness, and have made voluntary and
repeated requests to die.  Each case of euthanasia will have to be
registered with a national committee ...."
http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/323/7320/1024/a

The only other place where physician assisted suicide is legal is the
state of Oregon in the United States. However, one must establish
residency in the state first, and then "The law states that, in order
to participate, a patient must be: 1) 18 years of age or older, 2) a
resident of Oregon, 3) capable of making and communicating health care
decisions for him/herself, and 4) diagnosed with a terminal illness
that will lead to death within six (6) months. It is up to the
attending physician to determine whether these criteria have been
met."
http://oregon.gov/DHS/ph/pas/faqs.shtml#whocan

There is some very good information about the whole subject on
Wikipedia, here: http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:AyIz3yrzMUcJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physician-assisted_suicide+criteria+physician+assisted+suicide+legal+netherlands+OR+world+OR+global+OR+international&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=3

********************************************************************************

" ... Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows
of outrageous fortune, or to take arms against a sea of troubles and
by opposing end them ..." is a conundrum that has perplexed mankind
since the beginning of time, and will likely go on doing so for time
and times to come. It is so universal a question that I think it
foolish and futile to judge those who, for whatever reason,
contemplate it because, if we are honest, I think most of us have done
so at least briefly, at least once. At the same time, as you say,
everything is a phase and so, I also think it well to encourage any
such questioner to wait awhile and see if the instinct to survive does
not again take hold, as it almost surely will. Such is a mystery of
life, is it not? At any rate, it is a question of immense interest to
biomedical ethicists and the common man alike, as well as, of course,
a subject of intense debate throughout the world. All my best to you
as you ponder.

Regards,
Byrd-ga

Thank you. Wish everyone all the best here. I hope all of us find the
happiness we deserve. And thanks again, Byrd-ga.

You may not know this but mentally disturbed people cannot responsibly
make the determination that they no longer wish to live. My guess is
that your friend does not really want to die - HE WANTS TO LIVE
NORMALLY AND COMFORTABLY. I encourage you not to aid this person in
his search for a final solution and put your efforts into researching
clinical methods of relieving his suffering and improving his quality
of LIFE.

tutuzdad-ga

All three right-to-die organizations in Switzerland help terminally
ill people to die by providing counselling and lethal drugs. Police
are always informed. As we have said, only one group, DIGNITAS in
Zurich, will accept foreigners who must be either terminal, or
severely mentally ill, or clinically depressed beyond treatment.
(Note: Dutch euthanasia law has caveats permitting assisted suicide
for the mentally ill in rare and incurable cases, provided the person
is competent.)

http://www.assistedsuicide.org/suicide_laws.html

(This comes from an article that is about a year old, so I do not know
whether it is still applicable.)

Frankly, I do not think any physician would be likely to consider a
22-year-old person who is in good physical health to be "clinically
depressed beyond treatment."

That person is me. Not my friend. Mentally ill part aside. So can one
not be assisted even if he is not. Anywhere in the world. It is the
biggest choice of them all. Pain gets too overbearing or mind too
infected or simply the choice, then there must be. Should be. A place
where someone is given that choice with disregard to his health or
mental health. Anywhere?

I STRONGLY encourage you to try very hard to concentrate on what I'm
telling you now.... The suicidal thoughts you are experiencing CAN be
clinically addressed without over-reacting and taking drastic
measures. Please locate your hotline and give them a call.

SUICIDE HOTLINES
http://www.suicidehotlines.com/

Tutuzdad-ga

We don't have any hotlines in this country. This is Pakistan. And I'm
not suicidal. I only want to know if this choice is available to
mentally ill people or people who just choose to in anywhere in the
world, legally.

blackandwhite1234-ga,

Many people go through very dark periods in their lives and eventually
emerge on the other side of the darkness. When I was young, I felt as
you do, and did not believe I would ever feel differently.
Fortunately, a caring therapist and appropriate medications made a big
difference for me. I still grapple with depression, but I am very glad
that my impulse toward self-destruction did not succeed. Please,
please seek help in improving your life rather than in ending it. You
are not worthless: nobody is. Don't throw yourself away.

Sunshine,

You are 22 years old and you want to top yourself.

Congratulations, a lot of males go through that.

You reckon that you are mentally ill, you might be, but your spelling
and grammar suggest that you are pretty bright.

As a tip, put the full stop after the closing bracket - like this ').'
If that annoys you, then you are still functioning.

It's just hormonal, you will get over it.

Ha ha Frdea. That was an interesting comment. And thanks anyone who
has commented in this thread. But I still haven't gotten a solid
answer.

It is unlikely that you will get an 'answer'

The cream of GA researchers (my opinion) have made comments
- perhaps a few more will - I suspect so

I doubt that anyone will take $7.00 off you to answer an obvious, yet
little discussed, problem.

If you are really feeling suicidal then go join Al Qaeda in Iraq or
Afghanistan, however I rather suspect that you would find their crude
peasant mentality rather objectionable. The feeling would be mutual.

You are going through a phase, partly because at 22 one is supposed to
be an adult, yet at 22 a well nourished, under worked and educated
male of 22 is still feeling/testing the ground under his feet.

In the vernacular, you've gotta problem until 28

If you really want to get topped, it can be arranged, a pal of mine
has a superb hacienda in rural France, very isolated.

Somehow, I suspect that after reviewing the situation, you would change your mind.

This too will pass.

Dear blackandwhite1234-ga,

As you surely know, suicide or attempted suicide is considered a
criminal offense in Pakistan.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10331315&dopt=Abstract
I suppose that is why you are inquiring whether this is legal
elsewhere in the world.

However, I believe the answer to your question is no, there is nowhere
in the world where a person may obtain legal aid in committing suicide
under the conditions you describe.

There are only three countries in the world where physician assisted
suicide, or voluntary euthanasia, is currently legal. The best known
is Netherlands, which has the most liberal laws concerning this
subject. However, even there one would not be able to get legal
assistance for suicide under the conditions you state. The Dutch
government says,

"1 Can people come from other countries to seek euthanasia in the Netherlands? Top

"This is impossible, given the need for a close doctor-patient
relationship. The legal procedure for the notification and assessment
of each individual case of euthanasia requires the patient to have
made a voluntary, well-considered request and to be suffering
unbearably without any prospect of improvement. In order to be able to
assess whether this is indeed the case, the doctor must know the
patient well. This implies that the doctor has treated the patient for
some time.

"Granting a request for euthanasia places a considerable emotional
burden on the doctor. Doctors do not approach the matter lightly. From
this point of view too, longstanding personal contact between the
doctor and the patient plays an important role."
http://www.minbuza.nl/default.asp?CMS_NOCOOKIES=YES&CMS_ITEM=MBZ413299

The other country where assisted suicide is legal is Belgium, which
fairly recently passed a law legalizing it. However, "Strict criteria
will have to be met before a patient?s wish to end his or her life can
be honoured. Patients will have to be aged over 18 years, be
conscious, have an incurable illness, and have made voluntary and
repeated requests to die.  Each case of euthanasia will have to be
registered with a national committee ...."
http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/323/7320/1024/a

The only other place where physician assisted suicide is legal is the
state of Oregon in the United States. However, one must establish
residency in the state first, and then "The law states that, in order
to participate, a patient must be: 1) 18 years of age or older, 2) a
resident of Oregon, 3) capable of making and communicating health care
decisions for him/herself, and 4) diagnosed with a terminal illness
that will lead to death within six (6) months. It is up to the
attending physician to determine whether these criteria have been
met."
http://oregon.gov/DHS/ph/pas/faqs.shtml#whocan

There is some very good information about the whole subject on
Wikipedia, here: http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:AyIz3yrzMUcJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physician-assisted_suicide+criteria+physician+assisted+suicide+legal+netherlands+OR+world+OR+global+OR+international&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=3

In sum, since it seems that legally assisted suicide will not be an
option for you, and you are quite rightly fearful of the consequences
of other means, I would join my colleagues in encouraging you instead
to seek some wise counsel from a source that can offer you comfort,
help and assistance until the time, which will surely come, that you
can again think of living without pain or dread.

Very best of wishes,
Byrd-ga

Thanks to all the people who have commented here. Special thanks to:  byrd-ga.
You could take the 7 dollars by putting that comment in the answers section. =P =D

It is definitely sad that there is such limitation on human freedom.
The greatest freedom of them all. "To be or not to be"

Times are indeed troublesome. The world has gone haywire. Complexity
and diversity is extremly prevalent. The social circus is a circus
indeed. People get stepped on and people get caged. Biting on their
thoughts to find sanity. And it is very astonishing that people talk
about freedom, above all things. And they never take time to look
outside their box.

People say its a phase. It's a phase. Of course, everythings a phase.
But really do you think one can survive past, say, 10,000 years in an
eternal heaven without having a significant memory problem.

There are uncountable people out their who'd want a better life.
Thousands who'd like to die at this moment. Their hands are bound by
circumstances and thoughts which we cannot see and neither can
doctors. Only some understand them. And the others keep saying: "its
just a phase". Which I think is not the right thing to say to
everyone. Maybe for some people. But not for all.

We'll live countless tears. And countless joys. Under heavens shade.
Or under the vast radiance of our own happiness. But in the end. One
day or another, we have to die. Life could get better for me. I could
find all what i need to carry on. But one day or another, I will still
come back to this choice. One day or another I will have to sleep
forever. And dream no more.

I can assure you that when I said: 'It's just a phase'
It was meant in the context of your age and gender.

In recent years three of my friends have killed themselves, but they
were a lot older than you. I've contemplated it myself, but I suffer
from Neuralgia of the Trigeminal and have spent the last 14 years in
constant pain - hence my acidic outlook.

In the UK it is not uncommon for young males to commit, or attempt to
commit suicide, especially if they face social/academic/work
pressures. Especially also, if they are quite bright and well
educated.

Partly, I think, it is because around that age, we find ourselves
looking up at an apparently unscaleble cliff. Problems appear
insoluble, mainly because at that age we've never encountered them
before.

After a bit, we realize that quite a lot of things are rather trivial,
that a lot of the things we have been told to believe are ... just
plain wrong.

Minutiae become quite interesting, we learn not to take things that
seriously, in effect we become thicker, happier and cynical.

You'll see.  One day you will be saying the same.